Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2014 August 20

= August 20 =

Theravada Buddhists: Pali or Sanskrit?
From what I can tell, among Western Buddhists, Mahayanists prefer to use Sanskrit terms (karma, dharma, etc.), while Theravadins prefer to use Pali terms (kamma, dhamma). This made me curious about usage among Theravadins who speak an Indic language: from what I can find here, the Sinhalese words are කර්මය (karmaya) and ධර්මය (darmaya) – clearly not Pali-derived, because they have the Sanskrit r. So what's the reason for this seeming inconsistency? Is the preference for Pali over Sanskrit forms purely a phenomenon of Western Theravadins, and not actually the case among those in Sri Lanka or other Asian countries? --Lazar Taxon (talk) 00:42, 20 August 2014 (UTC)


 * It's not so much a preference, rather that Theravadins draw their teachings from the Pali Canon whereas the Mahayana draws much more on the Mahāyāna sūtras. However Sri Lankan Theravada Buddhists will naturally use Sinhalaese terms just as the English Theravada Buddhists will use terms that have become naturalised in English (e.g. the Sanskrit derived "karma" and "bodhisattva"), so I don't see any contradiction.--Shantavira|feed me 08:41, 20 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Lazar Taxon -- Buddhists originally chose Pali as a statement that they were preaching to the people in their ordinary spoken language, as opposed to Brahmins who used esoteric Sanskrit (which was already quite divergent from ordinary spoken language). This was the same reason why the Asoka inscriptions did not use Sanskrit.  However, within a few centuries, ordinary spoken language in north India started diverging from Pali, and in later eras there came to be strong Sanskrit influence on many Buddhist texts or writings (see Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit etc.)... AnonMoos (talk) 09:23, 20 August 2014 (UTC)


 * I am not familiar enough with the situation in Sri Lanka to comment (Shantavira's answer seems on the money though). However I can answer the final part of your question. In the countries of Southeast Asia where Theravada is practiced (Cambodia, Thailand, Laos, Burma), Pali is the language of Buddhism. Words adopted from Sanskrit can be found in the areas of politics and literature, but, as the Theravada Canon came to the region in Pali, that language has a special significance. In fact, it's significance as a "sacred" language has spread beyond Buddhism in these countries and is used (often in abbreviated form or simply for the sounds of the words, not necessarily the meanings) by local animists for magical purposes/folk practices (e.g. Yantra tattooing, "love spells" and "black magic").--William Thweatt TalkContribs 18:59, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Abbreviation "Ag" in German place names
This question is for a friend of mine whose research into her family's genealogy has taken her to a town called Gägelow Ag. Sternberg, in what's now Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania. Does anyone have any idea what "ag." stands for/signifies? I came up empty on Google and speak no German myself. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 01:37, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

(Copied from the Tourism Reference Desk, aka Wikivoyage Tourist Office by: 50.100.184.117 (talk) 02:16, 20 August 2014 (UTC); I suggest answering there. Looking at Google Maps, it seems to show Gägelow as place either within or near Sternberg, so I suspect the word is a preposition.)


 * I think the answer is that this is not part of the place name at all. I believe it refers to the local court (Amtsgericht or Ag.) in the district of Gägelow in the town of Sternberg. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 04:23, 20 August 2014 (UTC)


 * I'd agree with Andrewssi2. Ag. is a abbreviation for Amtsgericht, a low level local court that tends to have a number of smaller towns and villages falling within its jurisdiction; it's more than likely trying to indicate that Gägelow is within the catchment area of the court in Sternberg. Sotakeit (talk) 08:35, 20 August 2014 (UTC)


 * + 1. It was used formerly in order to distinguish towns like Gägelow AG Sternberg from Gägelow AG Wismar, see Mecklenburg Gazetteer. --Pp.paul.4 (talk) 12:54, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Pronunciation of Greek surname
How would the surname Petratos be pronounced? Hack (talk) 03:18, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
 * , . Fut.Perf. ☼ 04:58, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Great, thanks for the reply. Hack (talk) 06:09, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
 * But how's it pronounced in the Present? —Tamfang (talk) 07:23, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Beware of Greeks bearing Presents. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 09:02, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I resemble that! μηδείς (talk) 01:45, 21 August 2014 (UTC).


 * My mistake: the question is clearly subjunctive. —Tamfang (talk) 03:14, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

comma question on names
This question is not related to a Wikipedia article, but I thought I would ask here as being the best place to get a quick answer. When writing a list of names, with last name first (as in "Blow, Joseph T.")... do you put a comma before Jr., Sr., III, IV, etc. in other words is it:
 * Blow, Joseph T. Sr.
 * Blow, Joseph T. Jr.
 * Blow, Joseph T. III

or is it: Please don't start a debate... if different style guides say different things, just tell me which ones say what. Thanks. 74.64.17.9 (talk) 16:21, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Blow, Joseph T., Sr.
 * Blow, Joseph T., Jr.
 * Blow, Joseph T., III


 * According to the The Chicago Manual of Style, your second set of three names is punctuated correctly.
 * http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/qanda/data/faq/topics/Jr.Sr.III.html
 * —Wavelength (talk) 23:02, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Meaning of leporello in Italian
Can anyone confirm or give an etymology that shows that Leporello means "little rabbit" in Italian? A citable source for Don Giovanni would be helpful. Thanks. μηδείς (talk) 21:33, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The closest I can think of is lepre, "hare". Lepre -->  leporello is not any regular diminutive scheme I know, but it's pretty close. --Trovatore (talk) 21:35, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Leveret is leprotto in standard Italian. --Pp.paul.4 (talk) 22:26, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Isn't it lepus, leporis in Latin? So lepor- would be the stem; lepre is a plausible variation of that. AlexTiefling (talk) 22:49, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, that was what I was thinking, vulgar lepore- (either from leporē or leporem in Classical Latin could give this form dialectically in broad Italian. It also makes perfect sense that it's the name of the cowardly servant in D. Gio. μηδείς (talk) 01:43, 21 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Hares are not rabbits, and in English folk culture, at least, they have the attributes of speed and of hiding, and also ("March Hare") of madness. But not of cowardice. I don't know whether they have the same image in Italian folklore. --ColinFine (talk) 12:36, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The Latin diminutive of lepus is lepusculus. Some claim that Mozart (his native tongue being Bavarian language) Romanized Lipperl, meaning Hanswurst, to pseudo-Italian. Others claim that there is a vulgar Latin *leporellus or a vulgar Italian *leporello. I do not know. I guess that an Italian speaker understands leporello as leveret, but the word does not seem to exist. --Pp.paul.4 (talk) 09:01, 23 August 2014 (UTC)