Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2014 January 16

= January 16 =

"Don't feel" or "don't fear"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk

The word "feel" in the line "Conceal, don't feel. Don't let them know" (official lyrics) seemed to be pronounced by Idina Menzel with no coda, so it sounds like "Conceal, don't fear. Don't let them know". Is it so? Does anyone hear it that way? Czech is Cyrillized (talk) 12:10, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I think I can hear the trace of an [ɫ] there, but maybe my mind is supplying it because I know it has to rhyme with conceal. At any rate, that isn't the only coda consonant she swallows; the final consonants of tonight, inside, and tried are also very hard to hear. Aɴɢʀ (talk) 13:23, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, my bear ears hardly hear -l. Here -l is quite distinct.--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 14:33, 16 January 2014 (UTC)


 * I hear it as "feel" too. She is audibly breathing out or sighing at the end of "feel" which might have contributed to hearing it as "fear" ("-ear" can morph into a sigh more easily or more directly than "-eel" where your tongue is blocking the air a bit from being breathed out). ---Sluzzelin talk  15:10, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Arabic to English translation request
There is an English-language Wikipedia article Waw an Namus about a volcano in Libya. The first line of the article states that the Arabic name is واو الناموس The English translation of the Arabic was originally given as "Oasis of Mosquitos", which agrees with the Smithsonian Institution's web page for this Libyan volcano http://www.volcano.si.edu/volcano.cfm?vn=225008 (see text in Background tab). The English translation was changed by an unregistered user to "Caldera of Mosquitos" https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Waw_an_Namus&diff=522358583&oldid=521034490. Although the Smithsonian Institution's volcano website can be regarded as a reliable authoritative source of geological information about the volcano, I don't know if the Smithsonian or the other translation is correct or not, because I don't speak Arabic. Please could any Arabic speaker tell me which is the correct English translation of واو الناموس    ? GeoWriter (talk) 14:22, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Waw is oasis. This particular oasis is located inside the crater of a volcano, but waw itself doesn't mean crater or caldera. You can find that waw in some other place names in the same region like واو الکبیر. Omidinist (talk) 12:15, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'll edit the article accordingly. GeoWriter (talk) 14:26, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Native American alphabet - translating into modern english usage
Forgive me if this is a basic question; however, it has been puzzling me for the past few weeks. The modern english names of some geographical features (in New England in particular, but in many other places as well) are said to have been 'taken from' the Native American language. I began to wonder this while reading the article for Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg; specifically the first sentence in the "Name" section. From my limited understanding, the Native American alphabet differed greatly from the modern english alphabet. This difference leads to the question of how they based the current names of things, in modern english, off of the Native American phrases. Essentially, did the settlers (or whoever derived the Native American-based modern english names) create these words/names phonetically from their origins, or did they use other means?

Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.99.60.231 (talk) 17:46, 16 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Hello. I'm guessing that when you talk about "alphabet", you mean "sounds": there were no alphabets in the Americas until Europeans arrived, and no writing systems at all North of Mexico. You are quite right that the sound systems of native American languages were often quite different from those of the European settlers. Languages that are spoken recently (twentieth century or later) have often been transcribed by linguists who are careful to represent the sounds carefully (for an example of how outlandish the result can look, for a North-Western language, see Lushootseed language). For places, particularly in the East, which were given English names based on native words and names, they were generally written down by people who were not linguistically sophisticated, to represent as best they could using English (or French or Spanish) orthography the sounds they heard. --ColinFine (talk) 18:02, 16 January 2014 (UTC)


 * ... no writing systems at all North of Mexico - are you forgetting Sequoyah, Colin? --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  22:11, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
 * He wasn't pre-European. Rojomoke (talk) 22:41, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, but I assumed "until Europeans arrived" qualified the preceding phrase but not the succeeding. I may have misassumed.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  22:55, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I certainly intended "before the Europeans arrived" to apply to both. --ColinFine (talk) 23:36, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for clearing that up, Colin. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]

(OP here, different IP address). Thanks for the answer Colin. It’s funny how one assumes things (such as me assuming there was an alphabet and written language that the Native Americans used). Thanks again! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.177.249.29 (talk) 23:27, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes. Our culture gives written language such primacy, that people often forget that it is such a late arrival at the banquet. --ColinFine (talk) 23:36, 16 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Note also that there were hundreds of languages in North America. —Tamfang (talk) 07:10, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

All the best!
A friend of mine wants to make a birthday card with this greeting in various languages, but she is stuck. She has 'tout le meilleur! and Meilleurs voeux!' for French but is not sure which is correct. She would also like this in Czech and Arabic. Can anyone help, please? BbBrock (talk) 21:55, 16 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Meilleurs voeux gets lots of Google hits but tout le meilleur seems to be acceptable too . Alansplodge (talk) 23:51, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Stick with "meilleurs voeux". Tout le meilleur is not idiomatic and sounds like a clumsy machine-made translation. --Xuxl (talk) 08:34, 17 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks very much for your answers, Alansplodge and Xuxl, I will pass the information on. BbBrock (talk) 21:06, 17 January 2014 (UTC)