Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2014 July 10

= July 10 =

posse-artist
I can't find "posse-artist" in the dictionary. What does it mean in the following sentence? "It would be foolish to suppose that each and every gangbanger and posse-artist (and every Yardie and jihadi) in the entire manor had heard tell of the great asocial." Your help would be much appreciated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.249.230.78 (talk) 02:00, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I literally cant find it anywhere. It could be a term created by the author themselves.  Many authors create their own words (See A Clockwork Orange for example).  -- Jayron  32  02:23, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Given that the sentence in question was written by Martin Amis, I think that's a likely explanation. Another sentence of his, this time spoken: "I don't want to write a sentence that any guy could have written." ---Sluzzelin  talk  15:49, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Simply suggests an artist with a posse/entourage/crew. Something like Floyd Mayweather or Jay-Z has. Sort of like a gang, but glitzier. More like human bling. Though both of those guys' posses have (allegedly?) also gotten violent, from time to time. InedibleHulk (talk) 16:46, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * In the UK there is also the term 'piss artist' to mean a drunkard, so it could be a play on words.83.104.128.107 (talk) 13:28, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

la:Cynthia Crawford
This article, hosted on the latin wiki, is about a person who sculptors UFO things that she believes aliens make her do. I feel this is very un-encyclopedic and self-advertising. Also it is easy to take advantage of the fact Latin is not a popular language. Would you have comments or suggestions? Thanks in advance for your attention. --Jondel (talk) 03:53, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * We at English Wikipedia have no control over Vicipaedia's content. The instructions for nominating a page for deletion there can be found (in English) at la:Vicipaedia:Deletio/en. Lack of notability is not actually listed as a reason for deletion there, but you still might be able to convince people. You can use English as the language of discussion. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 13:58, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Angr.--Jondel (talk) 00:15, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Is this use of the word "inspire" correct?
On a certain website, I frequently see the word "inspired" in a certain manner. For example: "The manga inspired an anime series adaptation". Is this use of the word "inspire" correct? Or is the correct sentence "The manga was adapted into an anime series"? I checked this page on an online dictionary and Wiktionary but neither of them mention this use of the word "inspire". Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 06:13, 10 July 2014 (UTC)


 * That wiktionary entry sucks ("to produce in [sic]"?). Your perfectly fine sentence inspired me to answer you. See the first Merriam Webster definition. Clarityfiend (talk) 07:13, 10 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Here's an actual example from the website (taken from here, emphasis mine):


 * My question: is the use of the word "inspired" in that sense correct? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 07:51, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, although I prefer "had already inspired" to show that it preceded the second season. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:03, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes.--Jondel (talk) 09:30, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 10:46, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Turmeric pronounced
I have just realized that I have mispronounced 'turmeric' for, let's say, many years. Specifically not sounding the first 'r', saying 'tumouric'.

Since this error went on for so very long without me realizing, I'm wondering, do many people say the word without the first 'r'? Or is this a quirk peculiar to me and my family? Thanks. CBHA (talk) 16:11, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I said it the same wrong way as you for years, and only recently changed. AlexTiefling (talk) 16:13, 10 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Forvo has four recordings at http://www.forvo.com/word/turmeric/#en.
 * —Wavelength (talk) 16:29, 10 July 2014 (UTC)


 * I've never pronounced the first R and don't plan to start now. I only pronounce it at all about once every few years, anyway, so no harm done. InedibleHulk (talk) 16:34, 10 July 2014 (UTC)


 * The first "r" in Turmeric went on vacation with the first "r" in February. They spent some time in Colonel, giving the "l" and "o" a little break themselves.  No one has heard from the "d" and second "e" in Wednesday for years, I think they retired... -- Jayron  32  17:14, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Have you checked the libary? InedibleHulk (talk) 19:05, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't think I've ever pronounced the word turmeric at all, but the Merriam-Webster Collegiate dictionary lists your pronunciation (basically like "tumor" with an "-ic" tacked on) as second option after the orthographically expected pronunciation (basically like "term" with an "-əric" tacked on), so it's not just you. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 17:30, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I pronounce it like this, except maybe not quite so ponderously. For me, "tumour-ic" is just wrong. If you want a word that everyone mispronounces, try "anemone". 86.160.87.31 (talk) 17:58, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * He prepareth a table for me, in the presence of my anenomes... --Trovatore (talk) 23:32, 10 July 2014 (UTC)


 * From where I am from you'd get a wry eye if you said anything but toomeric. And if you put anything but carmel or choclate surrip (with jimmies) you'd be denied service, if you were lucky enough not to be lambasted as well.  The concept Jayron was alluding to is dissimilation. μηδείς (talk) 18:25, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * It seems fairly likely that there is at least some US/UK variation. 86.160.87.31 (talk) 19:10, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Top of my list of oft-mispronounced words are: capsicum (which many pronounce with a final n, for some odd reason), and pejorative (which ought to be stressed on the 2nd syllable -jor-, but many stress the first syllable and make it sound like perjure + ətiv. It has nothing to do with per- anything.  It's from the Latin peior, worse).  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  20:09, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Here, capsicum is a scientific word, so I don't think it's mispronounced very often. What you call capsicum is I think what we call bell peppers, though I'm not sure whether you include hotter varieties as well. --Trovatore (talk) 23:38, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Bell peppers, yes (although why such a name is used when they have no hot peppery taste eludes me). The thinner hotter ones, we call chillies.  There's a PLE-thora of such cases. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  00:00, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
 * But they're all capsicum. --Trovatore (talk) 00:14, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
 * To a scientist, maybe. In a culinary context, they have different names, for obvious reasons.  Try using chillies rather than bell peppers in your next ratatouille or gazpacho and see how many of your guests lap it up.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  01:04, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
 * More for me. --Trovatore (talk) 01:26, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
 * (But in any case, sure, they have different names. One is "bell pepper", the other is "hot pepper".  Makes as much sense as "capsicum" vs "chile".) --Trovatore (talk) 01:28, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Not to take this digression too far, but there's a continuum in pepper varietals in terms of pungency.  There is not a sharp, binary division between sweet peppers and hot peppers.   Bell peppers are probably the mildest,  but Peperoncini and Poblano and Anaheim pepper can all be quite mild, culinarily almost indistinguishable from bell peppers.  Scoville scale will introduce you to many varieties of peppers of all levels of spiciness.  -- Jayron  32  05:01, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Jack, are you thinking of capsaicin? That's the specific element of capsicum plants that makes them hot. Adam Bishop (talk) 10:57, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
 * In Australia, where Jack lives (as do I), "Capsicum" is the common name for all the non-hot varieties of peppers. HiLo48 (talk) 11:10, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
 * And the people who tend to say "capsicun" are mutually exclusive vis-a-vis the people who have ever heard of "capsaicin". --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  10:23, 13 July 2014 (UTC)


 * The names of many herbs seem to have different pronunciations across the English speaking world, based on location and, dare I say it, the degree Anaheim pepperof pretentiousness of the speaker. Some herbs I've noticed with varied pronunciations include coriander, cumin, marjoram, and oregano. Even the word herb varies. Here in Australia it is usually pronounced with an "h" at the front, as in the abbreviation of the name Herbert. But I've certainly heard many from the US and elsewhere leave the "h" off. One obviously cannot be prescriptive. HiLo48 (talk) 23:14, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I must admit that until well into my early twenties, I mispronounced all of turmeric, cumin, fenugreek and coriander - as "curry powder". --Shirt58 (talk) 08:26, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
 * At a guess, you speak a rhotic accent, and so it went the same place as the r in governor or berserk. That is, they're dropped as a dissimilatory process (which, looking at the article's lede, also has surprise and particular as examples).  Lsfreak (talk) 08:28, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
 * And of course now that I look closer Medeis already said that. Lsfreak (talk) 08:32, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

If you look to Webster's for clarification, you will find "all of the above" as correct, including "too MARE ik" (sigh) as well. But Dictionaries like Merriam Webster are descriptive rather than prescriptive, meaning they merely list common, contemporary usage. Looking to them for the "correct" pronunciation of a word is like letting the fox guard the henhouse. If a word is misspelled, misused, or mispronounced often enough by enough people, it will make its way into Merriam Webster. Then people will cite it and say "See, I was right!" Cambridge gives one and only one pronunciation, with both "r"s pronounced and the accent on the first syllable and no "y". And that's how this Ayurvedic practitioner pronounces it. The trend to drop the "r" and add a "y" (TYOO mer ik), along with the occasional accent on the second syllable, has been exacerbated by pop health gurus and celebrity chefs who appear on day time talk shows, trying to sound cultivated by using these variants. I'm guessing that those who say "tyoo meric" also say "kyoo pon." I cringe a bit when I hear the "r" omitted, even more with "y" added, and have to bite my tongue when the second syllable is stressed. But I try to live and let live, ignoring these abuses while I smile and nod in agreement as they extoll the virtues of this wonderful spice, happy that we share our appreciation for it. But I draw the line when they try to correct me when I pronounce it in the classical manner. I will tell them, "There's no TUMOR in turmeric."Cal Fallon (talk) 13:40, 25 February 2015 (UTC)