Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2014 July 28

= July 28 =

Based out of?
Why are so many bands, musicians, record companies and other popular music industry entities "based out of" some or other place? When did being "from" or "based in" become unfashionable in the music industry? Is there a reason why musical types prefer to be "out of" a place rather than "in" or "from" it? Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 08:48, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
 * "Get Up Offa That Thing" (and dance til you feel better...) (?) Martinevans123 (talk) 08:54, 28 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Pop culture is about many things, not least an instant adherence to "cool" new expressions which almost immediately become cliches. One apparently demonstrates one's independence from parental/adult authority by becoming a slave to one's perceived peers. Some presenter once thought of encouraging an audience to "Give it up for ..." some singer, so others now follow suit. The whole pop world is saying " be like ".  People regularly "hit up" other people.  Thousands of other examples.  None of these make any sense, naturally, but that's probably part of their appeal. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  09:55, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Yo, Jacko. Sick, rad and wicked, dude. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:16, 28 July 2014 (UTC)


 * See also wikt:Talk:based. I'm reminded of the bastardisation of the already slightly cringe-inducing (to me at least) idiom centered around (see wikt:center) into based around. Brrr. Fellow grammar-nazis™ have also picked (up) on both. I can already feel the metaphorical rash blooming. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 17:50, 28 July 2014 (UTC)


 * There's no evidence for this premise. The matter seems to be regional variation along the lines of "it looks to be" or "different to" and not a matter of the music industry per se. μηδείς (talk) 17:56, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
 * For "regional variation" can we substitute "US Eng"? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:22, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
 * No, because as far as I can tell, "based out of" seems to be from California and "looks to be" is quite typical of the Midwest. "Based in" is typical of the Northeast (maybe that's changing).
 * Starting to watch the pilot to Falling Skies last night, set in Boston, they had a "general" characterized as an unpopular outsider with a Texas-like accent who said "looks to be", further differentiating himself from the North Easterners. μηδείς (talk) 18:04, 31 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Yes I know the plural of anecdote is not data, but I noticed this peculiar (to me) phrase while reviewing hundreds of AFC submissions over many months and a substantial proportion of submissions about a musical entity (singer, band, album, etc.) use the "based out of" phrasing. I almost never see it in any other context (non-music-related topics). The evidence exists right here on WP - if someone has the tools to do a search for the phrase correlated to article topic then hard data can be obtained that will either confirm or refute my impression. I suspect though that many such instances might not survive for long in mainspace as "grammar Nazis" such as myself are compelled by our inner impulses to get rid of it. At AFC the vast majority of musical-topic drafts fail WP:NMUSIC so they never reach mainspace at all. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 09:41, 29 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Bands, sports teams and other performers who tour begin and end somewhere. It's their base, like a beehive is a bee's base. They're "from" all over the place, depending where you meet them. But when they're done, they return home.


 * Touring acts branch out, often worldwide, and have roots in their (fan)base, who they depended on for support in the early stages. Many other jobs are far more contained to one or a few places. There's no real difference between the base and where they are, or if there is, you can say that person got here from wherever. Not as straightforward and linear with bands. InedibleHulk (talk) 12:08, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
 * It's not just music or showbiz. (“I'm based out of Miami.” “Why, so am I, a couple of thousand miles out.”) I suspect it's a hybrid of “based in” with “working out of” (as in “I work out of [place],” meaning that is my home base but I spend much of my time on the road or making house calls). —Tamfang (talk) 04:45, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Irish translation help needed
A friend asked me to translate the James Joyce quote "When I die Dublin will be written in my heart" into Irish, it is intended to be a tattoo so I'm looking for someone better at Irish grammar than me to help out before I'm responsible for an indelible grammatical/ spelling error. Thanks. Biggs Pliff (talk) 11:59, 28 July 2014 (UTC)


 * This isn't a reference to a tattoo or to be taken literally in any way. It is a common idiom, for example "When I die, I think that 'Haiti' is going to be written on my heart." Franklin D. Roosevelt, which means his heart "belongs" there..--Shantavira|feed me 13:11, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't think either Biggs Pliff or FDR were actually contemplating open-heart surgery. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:14, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Google Translate suggests "Nuair a fhaighim bás, beidh Baile Átha Cliath a bheith scríofa i mo chroí." That looks reasonably good? But a bit more of a mouthful than "Is breá liom Mhamaí"? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:28, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Google Translate is not a reliable source for grammatically accurate translations. Sometimes it screws up vocabulary too. There is no amount you could pay me to have an unedited Google Translate result tattooed on me. AlexTiefling (talk) 13:59, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Could I interest you in a "Bloody Mary Skull and Crossbones"? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:05, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The first usage I'm familiar with is Mary I of England, ie. Bloody Mary, who said, "When I am dead and opened, you shall find 'Calais' lying in my heart". I suspect Joyce was echoing her - remember that Mary lost Calais. --NellieBly (talk) 13:30, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I think a "cauli lying in her heart" was the least of her worries, compared with the ovarian cysts and uterine cancer. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:41, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Actually, we have no idea what she died of. We can be fairly sure that the mid-20th century "phantom pregnancy" diagnosis is wrong, but that's as far as we can go. There are dozens of possibilities. --NellieBly (talk) 03:36, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Bet she has some awesome tats, though. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:42, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
 * WP:CHINESECHARACTERTATTOO, folks.--Shirt58 (talk) 06:06, 29 July 2014 (UTC)


 * You might try contacting User:Evertype who is the linguist Michael Everson and who has done some published translation, at least of Old Irish. Looking at his user contribs he hasn't edited since June, so emailing him through his user page might be an option.
 * I was going to suggest User:MacTire02, who seems to be still active. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:07, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I know enough Irish to know that Google Translate's result given above is astonishingly close to being right as a literal translation: just remove the "a bheith" and you have the literal Irish translation: "Nuair a fhaighim bás, beidh Baile Átha Cliath scríofa i mo chroí." However, I cannot vouch for the idiomaticity of that translation. It may well (and probably does) sound extremely "translated out of English". For a tattoo, I'd recommend either keeping it in English (it is a quote from James Joyce, after all, who wrote in a close approximation of English), or else getting a picture of a heart with the words Baile Átha Cliath written on it, or better yet, Baile Áṫa Cliaṫ in Gaelic type. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 15:13, 30 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Mightn't Joyce prefer the name Duibhlinn? —Tamfang (talk) 05:53, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

I'd also warn that if you get a tattoo in a foreign script that you make sure the "artist" is highly competent and aware of your concern the script be accurate--have him draw it out for you in his own hand before he starts the work. Before she passed away my sister suggested I get a coral snake as a tattoo since I told her I wanted an animal. I got a field guide, I drew the snake by hand, slithering in a sinusoid motion. I carefully drew the body scales curving as they normally would following the curving of the body. Luckily the idiot started with the tail, because about 1/4 of the way done I noticed he was just drawing the scales in straight lines as if they weren't even attached to the body. I shudder to think what it would have looked like once he got to the head with its specific scale pattern. If we don't have an article bad tattoo we should. μηδείς (talk) 18:29, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for all the help and suggestions, the translation does seem very literal from English but I can't think of a different/ better way to say it myself. Biggs Pliff (talk) 00:47, 1 August 2014 (UTC)