Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2014 July 31

= July 31 =

Parminder
How is this name pronounced? ÷seresin 05:56, 31 July 2014 (UTC)


 * If it's said the same way as Parminter, the accent is on first syllable (PAH-məntə). Same as Parrinder (PA-rəndə).  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  06:26, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Are you sure? In BrEng I'd be fairly confident it's general pronounced Pah-MIN-duh when used as a first name. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 07:43, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
 * My use of the word "if" reveals that, no, I'm not sure. I've downsized my post.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  08:27, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Ah. I missed the if. My apologies. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 16:27, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
 * You difficult people. In America it's pronounced 'Parminder. 17:58, 31 July 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by medeis (talk • contribs)
 * Where does the extra n come from? --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  19:59, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I can't be sure, but I think the unsigned post is either a typo or a joke about USians slaughtering 'foreign' names. Parminder_Nagra is probably one of the few famous examples in the US. SemanticMantis (talk) 21:07, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
 * It was simply a typo, I've corrected it. 15:54, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Here's a link to someone pronouncing the name on youtube . To my ear, there is slightly more stress on the second syllable, basically in line with Cucumber Mike's description. Also keep in mind that the name seems to be of Hindi origin, so pronunciation by Anglophones may differ from how it is pronounced in e.g. India. Here's some dodgy refs from baby name sites . SemanticMantis (talk) 21:07, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
 * It's a Sikh given name for both men and women. My understanding is that it is परमिंदर in Hindi and ਪਰਮਿੰਦਰ in Punjabi, roughly /pəɾmɪnd̪ə/ in them darn IPA squiggles or pərr-min-də in WP:RESPELL. I guess the stress would be on the "min" part. Pete AU aka --Shirt58 (talk) 12:23, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The first question is does the OP mean how is it pronounced in Punjabi, or how is pronounced in English by English-speakers who have the name. Entirely OR here, but I've known a couple of people with this name - both Britons from a Sikh background - and both pronounced it with the stress on the second syllable when speaking English. Both speak English natively with (non-rhotic) English accents and I never heard either pronounce their name with anything other than their normal English accents, so it would be something like /pɑˈmɪndə/ or even /pəˈmɪndə/. I don't know how either would have pronounced it if speaking Punjabi. I've found the same stress pattern used whenever I've heard the many Punjabi names - e.g. Surinder, Mohinder, Bhopinder, Varinder, Sukhbinder - that end in -inder used in BrE.
 * Our Punjabi language article has little to say about stress, but it does mention the importance of tone and this work in Google books suggests "stress is not a prominent feature of Punjabi" whereas tone is. Valiantis (talk) 20:50, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Apologies: I missed the point of the question. The answer is that the correct pronunciation of the name "Parminder" in English is the way a person called Parminder prefers it to be pronounced in English.--Shirt58 (talk) 12:28, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

such was its fidelity
I find the word "such" quite puzzling in the following context: "Until now he had accepted 'the Morning Lark' as an accurate reflection of reality. Indeed, he sometimes thought it was a local paper (a light-hearted adjunct to 'the Gazette', such was its fidelity to the customs and mores of his borough.)" Would you enlighten me on this point? Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.128.174.158 (talk) 10:27, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
 * It means that The Morning Lark (a parody paper?) seemed so similar to the real local paper in the way it reflected the customs of the borough that it seemed like another real local paper to him. It's just one of those idiomatic phrases. --Viennese Waltz 11:48, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
 * "Such" is a determiner in this sentence. It could be re-worded "as its fidelity to the customs and mores of his borough was like that [of the Gazette]".  (Incidentally, I would have put the closing parenthesis after "Gazette", rather than at the end of the sentence - it's a little confusing in its current position). Tevildo (talk) 13:07, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Another way to rephrase would be to replace "such" with "so great". —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 13:50, 31 July 2014 (UTC)


 * "Such" is not a determiner; it's a pronoun, the subject of "is". Without changing the meaning, the clause could be rewritten as "it had such fidelity to the customs and mores of his borough", and then "such" would be a determiner. Incidentally, in the original passage, the final period belongs outside the parentheses. --50.100.189.29 (talk) 13:59, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Hmm. See such under "Determiner" and "Pronoun".  There isn't an exact match for the usage in the OP's sentence, but "Such is life" is listed under "Determiner".  Formal parsing is rather out of fashion these days, but what noun or noun phrase does "such" replace in the original sentence, assuming it to be a pronoun?  Tevildo (talk) 17:01, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, well, if you read the "determiner" article linked above, it includes no such usage. Pun intended. --50.100.189.29 (talk) 06:39, 1 August 2014 (UTC)


 * It doesn't seamlessly "replace" a given noun or noun phrase, but such can refer to a particular property or quality described within its context. The Macmillan online dictionary writes: "as a pronoun: They want a 10% pay rise – such is the scale of their latest demand. ♦ The standard of living was such that someone earning £150 a month was considered rich." ---Sluzzelin talk  06:53, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Language maps with relief
Are there maps with relief shown? Like google maps with layers? I'd like to know how physical geography affects linguistic one.--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 21:47, 31 July 2014 (UTC)


 * It's a topic I would have come across, and I don't recall having seen much along that way. The obvious solution would be to find separate maps on google and juxtapose them.  You'll be aware of johanna Nichols' writing on the subject.