Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2014 July 4

= July 4 =

Disyllabic syllables?
I feel that Malayic languages is trying to pull my leg. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 00:19, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Google Books snippet view showed me enough of Adelaar 1992 to fix that section (lexemes are disyllabic, not syllables).--Cam (talk) 02:50, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Cool, thank you! (Should have thought of checking Google Books myself ...) --Florian Blaschke (talk) 18:07, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

what does "way out" mean?
Hi. I just want to know what does "way out" mean in the following sentence:
 * Way out in the water,
 * See it swimmin'

does it mean just "there"? -- 2.179.238.199 (talk) 04:42, 4 July 2014 (UTC)


 * "Way out" is a contraction of 'a ways out' which is an informal way of saying 'far off'. Plasmic Physics (talk) 04:47, 4 July 2014 (UTC)


 * "Way out" is NOT a contraction of 'a ways out' where I come from, because we would never use that latter expression. But it still means "far off". HiLo48 (talk) 04:50, 4 July 2014 (UTC)


 * In correct English, "way" is a noun, and "away" is an adverb. In the 1960s, hippies popularized "far out" and "way out" (correctly, "away out").  In correct English, "way out" means "exit" (as a noun), but in your example, it evidently should be "away out".  (Consider also "away back", "look away up", and "away down South".)
 * —Wavelength (talk) 05:05, 4 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Americans were saying things like "way out", "way back", etc., long before any hippies came along. For the OP's question, "way back" means "a fur [far] piece" or "out yonder". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:16, 4 July 2014 (UTC)


 * To me, "way out in the water" means about as far away as it can be and still be visible from shore.


 * Where I come from, "a ways out" would be a meaningful (though rather vague) expression. "Way out" would convey further out than "a ways out".  CBHA (talk) 05:19, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes. It's a relative term. "A ways out" means not very close to the shore but not very far from the shore either. "Way out" means far from the shore. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:28, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Are you sure? Plasmic Physics (talk) 05:34, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm sure of what these terms mean to me. They seem to mean much the same to Baseball Bugs as they mean to me.  I'm not at all sure what they mean to Plasma Physics or to the person who wrote the line quoted by the OP.  CBHA (talk) 06:02, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I concur. A ways out < way out < way the hell and gone. Clarityfiend (talk) 11:29, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
 * That would be my understanding as well (SW Ontario), though the actual distances would be different in different situations. Someone who swam "way out", might not go quite as far as a boat that had only gone "a ways out". It seems tied to effort/difficulty/danger. Matt Deres (talk) 18:17, 4 July 2014 (UTC)


 * To me as a British English speaker, 'a ways' sounds wrong; 'ways' is plural, and shouldn't have a singular article before it. "A way out" from something means a long way; if you meant a short way, you'd say so. "Way out", with no article, is even more emphatic - it definitely means far off. AlexTiefling (talk) 09:30, 4 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Luckily, this is the only known illogical phrase in English, so we should be okay. :) "A ways out" is definitely colloquial in my usage. "A way out" for me would just mean an exit, with no distance inherent to it. Matt Deres (talk) 18:17, 4 July 2014 (UTC)


 * After a very quick Google search, I found the phrase "way out at sea" quoted in the Journal of Natural Philosophy, Chemistry, and the Arts, which was published in London in 1797. So not colloquial and not 1960s hippy slang. Alansplodge (talk) 19:05, 4 July 2014 (UTC)


 * I don't think usage centuries ago has much bearing on whether it's colloquial today, but it's the wrong phrase anyway; we/I were talking about "a ways out" (with an 's'). Matt Deres (talk) 19:22, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I was addressing the original question, so perhaps I could have indented it better. Alansplodge (talk) 19:50, 5 July 2014 (UTC)


 * "A ways out" sounds like someone from Kentucky who is his own father. Anyway, OED has "way out" as an adverb meaning "far out, far away", first citation 1868 from America. DuncanHill (talk) 20:10, 4 July 2014 (UTC)


 * I'm familiar with the expression and I haven't been anywheres (there's another one) near Kentucky. Clarityfiend (talk) 03:35, 5 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Sure that it's not originally "a way's out"? In any case, etymology can sometimes help making sense of illogical or ungrammatical sounding phrases and idioms. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 18:09, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The OED also has "a ways", sense 23.c: "In a good, great, little, long ways... Also without qualifying adj... Now only dial. and U.S." In my experience, it's standard colloquial American, not limited to hillbillies. The OED says the etymology is obscure, but they say it might be related to the "adverbial genitive" found in dialectal words like anyways and noways. The first quotation is from 1588: "They..came vnto the gates of the cittie, after they had gon a good wayes in the suburbs." Lesgles (talk) 18:51, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you for checking the OED. Suspecting an original genitive/possessive here is really the only obvious idea, it seems ... --Florian Blaschke (talk) 18:58, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

Fellow soldier
How does one refer to a fellow soldier in US English? Is the most common term "comrade", or is that mostly used to refer to members of socialist/communist movements? --50.46.159.94 (talk) 06:39, 4 July 2014 (UTC)


 * You'll have to provide more context. Formal? Informal? On the battlefield? In a bar? In any case, never "comrade", unless you're joking around. Clarityfiend (talk) 11:27, 4 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Soldiers in the U.S. Civil war may have sometimes addressed each other as "Comrade", but they would have been much more likely to pronounce it as [kʌmrɪd] (or perhaps [kʌmreɪd]) than [kɒmræd], and of course without any Marxist connotations... AnonMoos (talk) 15:55, 4 July 2014 (UTC)


 * I believe they would address them by rank (if they are different ranks) or by name. Watch Full Metal Jacket.  KägeTorä - ( 影 虎 )  ( Chin Wag )  17:36, 4 July 2014 (UTC)


 * In a formal context, they might refers to their fellow soldiers, collectively, as their "brothers in arms". StuRat (talk) 02:46, 5 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Curiously, the German quasi-cognate Kamerad (an obvious Gallicism just like English comrade, its older form being camarade, surviving in another Gallicism camaraderie) is still associated with soldiers addressing each other (not sure what they say nowadays, but I suspect the term remains current), while it's the very much German word Genosse that has acquired the Marxist connotation. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 18:16, 5 July 2014 (UTC)


 * I'm looking for a word to complete: Ten years later, he had a reunion with his ____. Or: he watched many of his ____ die in battle.  I could swear I've heard "comrade" used in both cases, but I've rarely heard "brothers in arms" (especially for women).  Looks like my memory is faulty.  --50.46.159.94 (talk) 22:24, 5 July 2014 (UTC)


 * I believe it's fairly common to refer to women in the military as if they were men. For example, a midshipman, if female, does not become a midshipwoman. StuRat (talk) 22:39, 5 July 2014 (UTC)


 * In my experience (US, early to mid 1990s), "brothers" is the only term one would use in the two sentences you suggest, assuming it's from the POV of the soldier in question. I hear the current generation of soldiers often refer to themselves as "warriors", so "fellow warriors" would possibly be more contemporary. If it is just third person objective narration, any term that fits your story line would be appropriate.--William Thweatt TalkContribs 00:39, 6 July 2014 (UTC)


 * The military's just a different sort of frat, bro. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:48, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

French phrase
What is the French phrase whereby fascists that are elected are ignored by all the other politicians, and e.g. in the case of the BNP ex-MEPs, given the absolute minimum level of support required? Barney the barney barney (talk) 06:51, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Cordon sanitaire. 131.251.254.110 (talk) 08:32, 4 July 2014 (UTC)