Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2014 June 6

= June 6 =

Spanish translation requested
Here is my story. I have been learning Spanish for a couple of years. Last summer, I went to Mexico for a month and lived with a Mexican family. It was probably one of the best experiences I ever have in my life. Anyway, I want to write them a letter in Spanish. I can write a letter myself, but it's probably going to be crappy. However, I want the letter to be a good one because they're like my family in Mexico and it's very important to me. I'm going to write a letter in English. Can anyone with high proficiency in Spanish please help me translate it? Please keep the letter in simple words, no fancy! Greatly appreciate!
 * Dear! Hi! It has been a year since I was in Mexico. I miss you guys all. I also miss Mexico, the house, the people and pretty much everything in it. How is everyone doing? I wish Evelyn fulfill her dream of going to Instituto Politécnico Nacional and Fernando goes to the college of his choice. I hope everyone is going well with their lives. I really want to eat Lupita’s food again. I wasn’t lying when I said you are one of the best cook out there. I surely can tell you that I enjoyed every moment I had back in Mexico. I would do all over again if I have a chance. Anyway, as for me, I’m going to University of Wisconsin Madison next year. Even though my Spanish is not very good, I’m still working on it. I won’t give up. My goal is I’ll be fluent in Spanish one day in the future. I’ll keep my promise of going back to Mexico in a few years. I’m planning to study aboard for 6 months or a year during college in Mexico. Hopefully, my plan works out somehow. I guess it’s good bye for now. I’ll see you all again in a few years or sooner. And remember, if you ever happen to be in the US again, I’ll always welcome you to the US as you all warmly welcomed me to Mexico. Sincerely!

67.4.214.251 (talk) 05:36, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Your letter implies that you are a high school senior. Your English composition and grammar skills are not up to the standards at which a high school graduate should be able to write.  I think that you will need to re-write your letter using proper grammar first before successfully translating your letter into Spanish. --Thomprod (talk) 14:30, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but who are you to judge me up to some standard? I can tell you right now that I'm a highly successful senior. I hate bragging, but your comment was just too rude and came as a big insult to me, who is going to graduate soon. I don't think i can even graduate and go to U of W Madison if my English is not up to the standard. You're welcomed to discuss with my college about the English standard. I also just finished honors 12th grade English with a solid A. My GPA is very high, and I've received many awards throughout high school and too many other things to list. After reading my letter again, my grammar was fine for the most parts. Plus, you're not getting the point. The point is to write a personal letter, not to show off like "Yo, look at how well I can write my letter in proper grammar". I don't know anyone that tries to write a letter with perfect grammar to someone they love. Personal letters are how people usually talk in every day life. If you haven't noticed already, nobody cares about grammar as long as you don't say something like "you doesn't". I don't know if you're book smart or stupid, but one thing can be certain, you are socially awkard as your comment strongly proved it. Good luck criticizing people with your non-sense. Lastly, I asked for help. If you're not willing to help or not able to help then do not bother to make a comment. I think I have better things to do in my life than to discuss non-sense with someone like you. Peace!67.4.214.251 (talk) 17:15, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
 * You have mistakes in your comment immediately above, also. The question is, do you want to translate incorrect (or "colloquial") English usage into incorrect Spanish usage or into correct Spanish usage? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:59, 6 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Dear Hi,
 * They give many awards in high school now? Certainly not to you for letter writing or competent native grammar.  I get paid to write translations from English to Spanish.  I will do one for you for free if you can give us a properly written English letter. μηδείς (talk) 23:51, 6 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Please, allow me to reword your letter.


 * Dear [name]
 * A year has passed since my arriving home from Mexico, and I, truly, miss all of you. Indeed, my heart still yearns for not only the country, but also the house, the people, and pretty much everything in it.  And I cannot help but wonder:  How has everybody kept up, since my visit?  Verily, I hope that everyone's life be going well.


 * I pray that Evelyn do achieve her dream of going to Instituto Politécnico Nacional, and that Fernando, likewise, become accepted to whatever college he choose. As for me, I certainly look forward to enjoying Lupita's food once again, and, Lupita, I did not lie when I said that you truly are one of the best cooks around!  Forsooth, I can, unequivocally, tell you that I enjoyed every moment I had back in Mexico, and I'd do it all over again if I ever had the chance.


 * Next year, I'll start classes at the University of Wisconsin Madison, and shall continue working toward my goal of one day becoming fluent in Spanish. Upon which time, God willing, I'll fulfill my promise of returning to Mexico; namely, I plan to study there for 6 months to a year whilst in college.  If, somehow, my plan works out (as I so dearly hope) then I'll see you all again in a few years time or sooner.  Remember:  If you ever again find yourselves in the US, then I'll make sure to welcome you—as you so warmly, welcomed me!


 * Sincerely,
 * [name]

Perhaps, Medeis will, happily, translate this version into Spanish. If not, though, I'll try to do it pro bono. (Something tells me, however, that he would do a better job!) Pine (talk) 02:18, 7 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Wow. I fully understand why the OP's already angry, and it's getting worse: "My heart yearns"?  "Verily"?  "I hope that everyone's life be going well"?  What planet is this?
 * All the OP wanted was to translate the letter he provided, warts and all, into a reasonable hispanic facsimile thereof. If the translator notices spelling or grammar glitches in the original, but the meaning is clear, they just translate what they believe the writer meant, without comment, unless the writer asked for feedback on their original text.  I know this simple matter is within the grasp of everyone here who is in a position to help.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  03:48, 7 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I agree.....sort of. I get the feeling that the extreme formality of Pine's version was meant as sarcasm (toward the critics above). Also, from the types of mistakes the OP makes, I believe English may not be their first language. If that were the case I'd be willing to totally agree with you, Jack. But the OP's attitude in their response to Thomprod (especially the unwillingness to see their mistakes) invited the further criticism. Perhaps it would be best if somebody would just provide a translation of the OP's letter (yes the English is full of mistakes, but I believe the sense of the intended meaning can be discerned) and be done with this tread.--William Thweatt TalkContribs 04:16, 7 June 2014 (UTC)


 * The OP could always start with the Google Translate result and polish from there:
 * Querido! Hi! Ha sido un año desde que estaba en México. Le falto todos los chicos. También extraño México, la casa, la gente y casi todo en él. ¿Cómo está todo el mundo? Ojalá Evelyn cumplir su sueño de ir a Instituto Politécnico Nacional y Fernando va a la universidad de su elección. Espero que todo el mundo va bien con sus vidas. Tengo muchas ganas de comer la comida del Lupita nuevo. No estaba mintiendo cuando dije que usted es uno de la mejor cocinera que hay. Yo sinceramente puedo decir que he disfrutado cada momento tuve de nuevo en México. Lo haría todo de nuevo si tengo la oportunidad. De todos modos, en cuanto a mí, voy a la Universidad de Wisconsin Madison próximo año. Aunque mi español no es muy bueno, todavía estoy trabajando en ello. No voy a renunciar. Mi objetivo es que voy a ser fluido en español un día en el futuro. Voy a mantener mi promesa de volver a México en unos pocos años. Estoy planeando estudiar al extranjero durante 6 meses o un año en la universidad en México. Espero que mi plan funciona de alguna manera. Supongo que es adiós por ahora. Yo veré a todos de nuevo en unos pocos años o antes. Y recuerda, si alguna vez sucede estar en los EE.UU. de nuevo, siempre voy a darles la bienvenida a los EE.UU. como todos ustedes me acogieron cordialmente a México. Atentamente!


 * ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 04:36, 7 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Hey, everybody, you must be terrific person if you won't exchange my forge notes for actual pesos!


 * Sorry, Bugs, that's half comprehensible but even worse than the English. If Pine wants to go to ANI, ask to have either himself or the OP blocked as a sock, then report back here under his real identity as to what he actually wants to say in reasonably idiomatic English, fine.  As for JoO, I am sure he could make an even better pretend attempt, especially given his expertise in imagined anger. 05:58, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
 * In theory, proper English fed into Google Translate should give reasonable results. I think the OP should try it a sentence at a time, and then bring it back here for review. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 07:35, 7 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Sometimes it can be interesting to translate back to English using Google Translate and see how close it comes to the intended meaning.
 * Dear! Hi! It has been a year since I was in Mexico. I miss all the guys. Mexico also miss the house, people and almost everything in it. How is everyone? Evelyn hopefully fulfill his dream of going to the National Polytechnic Institute and Fernando goes to the university of your choice. I hope everyone is going well with their lives. I really want to eat the food of the new Lupita. I was not lying when I said that you are one of the best cook out there. I can honestly say I enjoyed every moment I was back in Mexico. I would do it all again if I have the chance. Anyway, as for me, I'm going to the University of Wisconsin Madison next year. Although my Spanish is not very good, I'm still working on it. I will not give up. My goal is that I will be fluent in Spanish one day in the future. I will keep my promise to return to Mexico in a few years. I am planning to study abroad for 6 months or a year in college in Mexico. I hope my plan works somehow. I guess it's goodbye for now. I'll see you all again in a few years or sooner. And remember, if you ever happen to be in the U.S. again, I will always welcome you to the U.S. as you all welcomed me warmly Mexico. Sincerely!
 * ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 07:37, 7 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Hello 67.4.214.251, here is a human translation by a Spanish-as-a-third-language speaker. There are some ambiguities in your text, which may be the reason why others more proficient in Spanish than me have been reluctant to translate it. I have tried to translate what I thought was your intended meaning. In doing so, I may have inadvertently changed the meaning, so beware of incorrect disambiguations. Also, I have surely made grammatical errors and unidiomatic choices of words. I would be grateful if our Spanish-speaking resident(s) would point these out.
 * Dear!
 * ¡Querido ___!
 * Hi!
 * ¡Hola!
 * It has been a year since I was in Mexico.
 * Un año ha pasado desde que estaba en Mexico.
 * I miss you guys all.
 * Les echo mucho de menos a todos.
 * I also miss Mexico, the house, the people and pretty much everything in it.
 * Tambien echo de menos Mexico, la casa, la gente y basicamente todo que estaba allí.
 * How is everyone doing?
 * Cómo estan todos?
 * I wish Evelyn fulfill her dream of going to Instituto Politécnico Nacional and Fernando goes to the college of his choice.
 * Ojalá que Evelyn cumplirá su sueño de ir al Instituto Politécnico Nacional y que Fernando podrá estudiar en el colegio que quiera (NOTE: use the term that Fernando and the family used, colegio can also mean elementary school)
 * I hope everyone is going well with their lives.
 * Espero que todos estén bien y que tengan vidas felices.
 * I really want to eat Lupita’s food again. (I'm rephrasing slightly in the translation)
 * Se me hace la boca agua sólo pensando en la comida de Lupita.
 * I wasn’t lying when I said you are one of the best cook out there.
 * No mentí quando dije que eres una de los mejores cocineras allí.
 * I surely can tell you that I enjoyed every moment I had back in Mexico.
 * Digo sinceramente que disfruté cada momento en Mexico.
 * I would do all over again if I have a chance.
 * Lo haría otra vez si tendría la opportunidad.
 * Anyway, as for me, I’m going to University of Wisconsin Madison next year.
 * De todos modos, yo empiezo mi carrera en la Universidad de Wisconsin Madison el año que viene.
 * Even though my Spanish is not very good, I’m still working on it.
 * Aunque mi espanõl ya no es muy bueno, estudio para mejorarlo.
 * I won’t give up.
 * No dejaré de estudiar el español.
 * My goal is I’ll be fluent in Spanish one day in the future.
 * Mi meta es hablar español de manera fluida, un dia en el futuro.
 * I’ll keep my promise of going back to Mexico in a few years.
 * Cumpliré mi promesa de volver a Mexico dentro de unos pocos años.
 * I’m planning to study aboard for 6 months or a year during college in Mexico. NOTE: I find this sentence ambiguous, does it mean "{abroad for 6 months} or {a year during college in Mexico}" or "abroad for {6 months or a year} during college in Mexico". In the first case, abroad would refer to any country except the US and presumably Mexico, in second the case, "abroad" would refer to Mexico (and be superfluous).
 * Suggestion (if this is what you meant): Mi plan es pasar seis meses o un año de mi carrera estudiando en el extranjero, posiblemente en Mexico.
 * Hopefully, my plan works out somehow.
 * Con suerte, realizaré este plan.
 * I guess it’s good bye for now.
 * Entonces, es "good bye" por ahora y hasta luego.
 * I’ll see you all again in a few years or sooner.
 * Nos vemos todos dentro de un par de anõs, o quizaz mas pronto"
 * And remember, if you ever happen to be in the US again, I’ll always welcome you to the US as you all warmly welcomed me to Mexico. (I find this difficult to translate well without more information. USA is a big country. Will you travel anywhere in the US to meet them? What are you offering? Meeting them at the airport, having them staying in your house, showing them around, ...)
 * Y requerde, si una vez vienen a ((somewhere within a reasonable distance from where you live)), mi casa es su casa, y estaré encantado en mostrarles (whatever you would like to show them) y en ayudarles en cualquier manera.
 * Sincerely!
 * In a personal letter, "Attentamente" seems too formal to me. Would you be ok with "¡Fuerte abrazos de (your name)!"?
 * --NorwegianBluetalk 22:00, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
 * My first thought after reading the orig. post is that a personal letter like that should not be translated by someone else. The OP says "Even though my Spanish is not very good, I’m still working on it"  so whatever letter they write would reflect that. And anyway, a non-perfect letter might even be more interesting for the family to receive. Non-fluent writing tends to read somewhat poetically, imo.  Anyway, my second thought -- after reading the harsh reaction to some (valid) constructive criticism -- was that maybe the OP is trying to get his Spanish homework done here. Also I wouldnt want to help someone who reacts that way to the first reply. El duderino (abides) 03:39, 13 June 2014 (UTC)


 * I rewrote it to this:


 * Dear Smith. Hi Jones. It has been a year since I visited Mexico. I miss you all. I very much enjoyed my visit. How are you all? I hope Evelyn goes to Instituto Politécnico Nacional. I hope Fernando goes to the college of his choice. I miss Lupita's cooking. She is a great cook. I thoroughly enjoyed everything. I plan on going to the University of Wisconsin in Madison next year. I am still practicing my Spanish every chance I get. I hope to get back to Mexico in a few years, perhaps to to study while in college for 6 months or a year. I will say goodbye now. But I hope to see you all again. Please, if you visit the United States, visit me. Sincerely, John Doe


 * Which Google helpfully translated to this:


 * Querido Smith. Hola Jones. Ha sido un año desde que visité México. Echo de menos a todos. Me gustó mucho mi visita. ¿Cómo está todo? Espero Evelyn va al Instituto Politécnico Nacional. Espero que Fernando va a la universidad de su elección. Echo de menos la cocina de Lupita. Ella es una gran cocinera. Me lo disfrutamos de todo. Estoy pensando en ir a la Universidad de Wisconsin en Madison el año que viene. Todavía estoy practicando mi español cada vez que puedo. Espero poder volver a México en pocos años, tal vez para estudiar en la universidad durante 6 meses o un año. Voy a decir adiós ahora. Pero espero verlos a todos de nuevo. Por favor, si usted visita los Estados Unidos, a visitarme. Atentamente, John Doe


 * Obviously I changed the letter. I hope I did so judiciously and not heavy-handedly. Bus stop (talk) 12:01, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

God Love
Theophilos, Amadeus, Gottlieb and Bogoljub are given names that have respectively a Greek, Latin, Germanic and Slavic origin. They are all based on words meaning "God" and "love" in their original language. Are there other examples in other languages such as Celtic, Hebrew, Arabic, Hungarian, Sanscrit... --151.41.148.245 (talk) 22:18, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Closest Hebrew equivalent I think is Eldad (usually translated "God has loved"). - Lindert (talk) 22:45, 6 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Another Hebrew form (parallel with Obadiah) would be something like "Ahaviah", and indeed I find a few hits for this name, one of which does give the meaning as "the LORD loves" or "love of the LORD". --ColinFine (talk) 00:14, 7 June 2014 (UTC)


 * For languages of non-monotheistic cultures, such as Sanskrit, it's probably more likely to find names relating to "love" and specific deities (not "God" in general). For example "Shivali" (शिवाली) means "Beloved of Shiva" in Sanskrit and the (not too common) Hindi name "Harika" (हरिका) comes from Sanskrit Harikanta, a feminine form of "Beloved by Indra".--William Thweatt TalkContribs 00:42, 7 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Arabic has "Habibullah". Adam Bishop (talk) 00:29, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
 * German-speaking Jews traditionally considered Hebrew (Yedidyah, Jedediah) as the equivalent of Gottlieb.  הסרפד  (call me Hasirpad) 04:01, 8 June 2014 (UTC)


 * I've been racking my brains for an English version - I was sure that there was somebody in the English Civil War with that sort of name, but I was actually thinking of Praise-God Barebone. He was the son of a parson and other family members were called Fear-God Barebone, Jesus-Christ-came-into-the-world-to-save Barebone and If-Christ-had-not-died-for-thee-thou-hadst-been-damned Barebone - see A Dictionary of Biblical Tradition in English Literature (p.535). The same source also has somebody in the 17th century called Glory-be-to-God Penniman who was not so badly off as Flie-fornication Andrews. Anyhow, a Google search shows that "Godslove" is not unknown as a first name in the 21st century, although most of them seem to have African surnames. Alansplodge (talk) 19:54, 8 June 2014 (UTC)


 * There was Godlove Stein Orth, although I'm sure that was just a translation of "Gottlieb". Adam Bishop (talk) 01:45, 9 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Often in English, "God" becomes "good". "Goodlove" is a rare English surname; "Lovegood" is rarer but better known because of Harry Potter. --NellieBly (talk) 04:40, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

While researching the above, I came across Curiosities of Puritan Nomenclature (1888) which includes the tale of a cotton mill worker with the surname "Lees" who was told by his employer that a good Biblical name for his newborn son was "Tellno". It was only after the Christening that he and the unfortunate Tellno Lees discovered they'd been had. Alansplodge (talk) 15:57, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Gender
Why did some languages evolve "gender" but others didn't? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.95.11.138 (talk) 23:15, 6 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Linguistic gender will give you a hint and some good sources such as the Cambridge Langugae Series on the specific topic. Two standard methods are marking of animate versus inanimate nouns on the verb.  Man throws rock is often marked differently from rock throws man since various entities are viewed as typically agents (subjects) while others are normally patients (objects).  (This may be the source of the difference between neuter and non-neuter nouns in PIE.)  Words for fire, the planets, and living beings tend to get marked as animate in such systems.  Another way is systems that add a form meaning -woman to female animals.  This can spread to fruits and other "unusual" forms--think of how we still name ships, storms, and nations as female in English.  There are also forms like those of isiZulu where prefixes may indicate a person, animal, or even both a tree or medicine (as medicines often come from plants).  These systems often start off rationally motivated, but become irregular due to custom. μηδείς (talk) 23:58, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Corrected wikilink in the above. --ColinFine (talk) 00:07, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Sometimes it's not that the language never develops grammatical gender: sometimes grammatical gender is lost. See our article on gender in English for an example of how that can occur. --NellieBly (talk) 04:49, 9 June 2014 (UTC)