Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2014 May 24

= May 24 =

Treasure Island
I'm surprised that the good doctor says when talking to the captured Hawkins, "By Jupiter". This in a book that talked Christianity, unsurprisingly from that era. Can anyone tell me more about this? Thanks. 24.215.188.243 (talk) 03:21, 24 May 2014 (UTC)


 * I've heard it before. Yelling "Jesus Christ !" was considered to be "taking the Lord's name in vain", so they substituted a "god" they didn't care about offending. StuRat (talk) 03:50, 24 May 2014 (UTC)


 * "By Jove" was a similar expression, Jove being a form of the word Jupiter, and giving us the word "jovial". --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  06:53, 24 May 2014 (UTC)


 * See minced oath. Djbcjk (talk) 07:21, 24 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Or "Jovian", pretty much anything to do with Jupiter. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:29, 24 May 2014 (UTC)


 * To add some context: during the periods in which the book was written and is set the study of classical Latin (and often also Greek) language and literature usually formed a substantial part of an advanced education (hence the origin of the name "Grammar school"), such as that which a doctor would necessarily have received. Consequently, the British upper/educated classes were familiar with Classical culture and religion, and references to them were considered respectable. This made it acceptable, for example, to depict naked women in art, provided that the scene was taken from Classical history or myth, and to swear by Classical pagan deities when to do so by Christian entities would have been considered coarse or blasphemous.


 * Of course, no-one imagined that those so swearing actually believed in the Pagan deities being referenced (if any actually did, they would have kept quiet about it!) Expressions like "By Jove!" remained current as recently as the 1970s in the UK, kept alive in popular children's literature such as W.E. Johns' Biggles and other series, and Anthony Buckeridge's Jennings books: I myself learned and used to use them for that reason. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.218.13.119 (talk) 16:47, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I wonder if this is related to those exclamations that sound as though you're about to swear, but are turned into something innocuous half-way through, like the polite people who say "Oh sugar!" when they make a mistake. Alansplodge (talk) 18:52, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
 * As made fun of in the old song, "Shaving Cream". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:13, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
 * And peripherally related to that concept is the "You bet your sweet Aspercreme" marketing campaign from a few years back. Evan (talk&#124;contribs) 22:24, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
 * My 92 -year-old father still uses lots of amusing euphemisms, rathering than using outright profanity. One of his favourites is "holy good old Sebastian", which I've never heard anyone else use. OttawaAC (talk) 00:17, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
 * My late Dad, who would be 94 now, used to say "Gosh old fish hooks". Again, that seems to be unique in my experience.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  20:16, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
 * For more on covert and/or implied cursing, see Mind rhyme and Mondegreen ("If you see kay..."). Evan (talk&#124;contribs) 20:26, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
 * More recently, "Polka Dot Undies". —Tamfang (talk) 07:58, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Hungarian translation
In Krisztina Egerszegi's article, it gives two nicknames ("Egérke" in the infobox, "Egér" in the body), both supposedly meaning "Mouse". Many searches translate the former as "Little Mouse", some have both as "Mouse", and one or two even claim the latter means "Little Mouse". Could somebody give a definitive answer? Clarityfiend (talk) 08:27, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
 * "egér" is the basic form and means "mouse". The suffix "-ke" (sometimes "-ka" is used, depending on the base word's vowel, see link) is a Hungarian diminutive, hence "egérke" is "little mouse" (or "tiny mouse"). ---Sluzzelin talk  10:52, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
 * That's what I suspected. Thanks. Clarityfiend (talk) 12:09, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Japanese help: Names of organizations
I have added content to Japanese community of Mexico City so that Spanish speaking editors can translate it into Spanish. Since the Chizuko Watanabe thesis does not print the Japanese characters, I'm trying to figure out what they would be. I used the dictionary at http://jisho.org. Thanks, WhisperToMe (talk) 17:32, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Kokusui Doshi-kai ("Ultra-Nationalist Comrades Association") = 国粋同士会 ? (NOTE: it was established by Japanese who celebrated a Japanese victory in World War II and did not accept Japan's loss in the war)
 * meishin-kai ("Year of the Monkey Club" - a reference to people born in 1908)
 * Bokuto Sogo Fujo-kai ("Association for Mutual Aid")