Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2014 November 23

= November 23 =

Term for almost an enclave
Is there a term for an area of land, that is almost surrounded by another country, and the only way into that area by road is through the surrounding country? Such as this area, north of the Finn River, on the Ireland/Northern Ireland border? 54.12357°N, -7.30491°W CS Miller (talk) 10:25, 23 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Here we call it an "inaccessible district". Kahastok talk 10:55, 23 November 2014 (UTC)


 * It's also sometimes called "pene-enclave". —Tamfang (talk) 20:12, 23 November 2014 (UTC)


 * The book "The Exclave Problem of Western Europe" by Honore M. Catudal (ISBN 0-8173-4729-1) calls them "pene-exclaves"... AnonMoos (talk) 23:01, 23 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Presumably a pene-exclave would include any area that is almost an exclave, whether or not it is also almost an enclave. For example, imagine that the US purchased a narrow strip of land comprising Canada's entire Pacific coastline.  Then Alaska, which is now an exclave* but not an enclave, would become a pene-exclave but not a pene-enclave.  (*Actually, the article linked above says that Alaska is already a pene-exclave because an exclave would have to be separated from the main part of the country by territory of another country or countries, not by international waters.  That's not the definition of exclave that I'm using, and neither does the article in at least one place, namely the diagram at the top.) --65.94.50.4 (talk) 06:49, 25 November 2014 (UTC)


 * My American Heritage Dictionary illustrates ‘exclave’ with Cabinda, fwiw. —Tamfang (talk) 08:35, 25 November 2014 (UTC)


 * The Northwest Angle in Minnesota is another good example.  → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 22:16, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

German translation
I need a translation of Lieder für Freunde der Geselligen Freude for our Gaudeamus igitur article. Google is giving me "Songs for Friends of the Sociable Joy" which makes sense but isn't really English. Can anybody do better than a machine please? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alansplodge (talk • contribs)


 * Gesell means fellow, so you could go with companionable. The problem here doesn't seem to be translation, so much as the lack of a felicitous English expression.  ("Friends of joy companionable" might at least sound more mock-poetical.) You are probably going to be stuck with something bad sounding in English if you want to be literal to the German. μηδείς (talk) 19:15, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Okay, so ""Songs for Friends of Companiable Joy" doesn't sound too bad does it? Alansplodge (talk) 19:19, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Alternatively someone has translated it as "Songs for Friends of Convivial Joy". --Antiquary (talk) 19:28, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
 * "Convivial" is pretty good, I think. That's probably as close in meaning and style as you're going to get. Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:09, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
 * It doesn't quite have the ring of a Top 40 hit. μηδείς (talk) 19:48, 23 November 2014 (UTC)


 * I'd go with "Songs for Party Lovers". &#8209;&#8209; Mandruss  &#9742;  19:30, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Thank you, one and all. Being a conventional sort of chap, I'm going with "Songs for Friends of Convivial Joy", although Mandruss's suggestion is a close runner-up (it puts me in mind of a title that might be used by Mrs Mills, for those Brits old enough to remember). Alansplodge (talk) 20:09, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

(after edit conflict with OP ;-) The pairing "gesellige Freude" sounds antiquated to most contemporary German ears, or so I claim. I found it used (in various inflections) by Goethe, Wieland, but unfortunately not in texts for which I found English translations. Mandruss has a point, though other gatherings are imaginable too. It's often hard to even come up with a good translation of "gesellig". Similarly, see Gezelligheid. ---Sluzzelin talk  20:11, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Songs for Friends in Joyful Gath'ring sounds very Lutheran. Does that work? μηδείς (talk) 23:03, 23 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Gaudeamus igitur = So let us be merry! first hit of G, also So let us be joyful!.
 * "Lieder für Freunde der Geselligen Freude" = Songs for Friends/Fans of convivial pleasure/joy
 * Todays use of gesellig in Employment reference letters mostly indicates an former employed was drunk at work or problems with alcohol. But the Geselle is still the Journeyman who is an examinated Craft under German medieval conserved regulation Handwerksrolle. --Hans Haase (talk) 10:52, 24 November 2014 (UTC)