Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2015 December 8

= December 8 =

Who came up first with U and J?
I had thought that Gian Giorgio Trissino was the one who came up first with these letters, but I now read at fr:Antonio de Nebrija that he was earlier. However, there is no reference given for that claim. Our article Antonio de Nebrija doesn't mention any of that. Given that this was the most successful innovation to the Latin alphabet, one would think it would be better known. &mdash; Sebastian 20:07, 8 December 2015 (UTC)


 * The article "J" says: "Gian Giorgio Trissino (1478–1550) was the first to explicitly distinguish I and J as representing separate sounds, in his Ɛpistola del Trissino de le lettere nuωvamente aggiunte ne la lingua italiana ("Trissino's epistle about the letters recently added in the Italian language") of 1524."
 * —Wavelength (talk) 20:35, 8 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, it has been in there since 2008 (and is probably where I got the idea from), but the reference is just his œuvre, not anything that supports the claim that he was the first. &mdash; Sebastian 22:57, 8 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Per SebastianHelm, are we sure he invented the practice? It sounds like he was merely documenting the practice which already existed.  -- Jayron 32 00:42, 10 December 2015 (UTC)


 * In the Latin script for a long time there were no U/u and J/j pairs but V/u and I/i/j. When and how exactly all these glyphs became not allographs but were rethought and resorted as different letters U/u, V/v, I/i, J/j, is difficult to say. But the breaking point had to be when the independent captal U and J appeared. I doubt that the work of Sr. Trissino was influental, but that that idea could come to mind of various people independently. That must have happened during the 16th century in various languages.--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 01:49, 9 December 2015 (UTC)