Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2015 February 28

= February 28 =

French: What is a 2cl in the French Army?
Hi. I'm writing an article on the French Army's cycling team. All the riders are soldiers as well as riders, and I'd like to include something about their ranks in the article. This is provided on the team's website but I don't understand the ranks. Sergent-chef, Brigadier and Caporal I can understand, but what are 2cl and 1cl? Thanks. Relentlessly (talk) 11:01, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
 * They are soldat de deuxième classe and soldat de première classe. See also our subsection on "Militaires du rang - enlisted" on en.wp. ---Sluzzelin talk  11:40, 28 February 2015 (UTC)


 * They are also mentioned in our wi-i-i-i-ide page on ranks and insignia of NATO armies enlisted, where they are categorized as OR-2 (1re classe) and OR-1 (2e classe) ("OR" stands for "Other Rank", see Ranks and insignia of NATO, and "1" designates the very bottom of the hierarchy). The table on that wide page gives you the corresponding OR-1 and OR-2 ranks in other NATO country's armies (e.g. Reamees and Kapral in Estonia). ---Sluzzelin talk  23:29, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your help, Sluzzelin. Relentlessly (talk) 13:50, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Sentence filling help
Imagine, a person is performing satanic activities using telepathy technology, what word(s) shall I use from the brackets?

Sentence is: “Truly they were all performing satanic activities in disguise _________________________________________________________________." (Directly, indirectly, knowingly, unknowingly, intentionally, unintentionally, overtly, covertly, wittily, unwittingly, consciously, subconsciously, in an unconscious mind).

(SuperGirlsVibrator (talk) 18:14, 28 February 2015 (UTC))
 * Well, half of the choices imply that the people know their activities are Satanic, and half of them imply that the people don't know this. You'll need to decide which meaning you intend before we can help.  I would also recommend putting the word from the brackets between "all" and "performing", rather than at the end of the sentence - for example, "Truly, they were all intentionally/unintentionally performing Satanic activities in disguise."  "Disguised Satanic activities" might also be an improvement. Tevildo (talk) 20:55, 28 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I'd be tempted to say "occultly", since it means both "supernaturally" and "hidden". Of course, not everyone knows of the "hidden" meaning, as in occult blood. StuRat (talk) 21:06, 28 February 2015 (UTC)


 * This sentence is in many places written indifferently, I can workaround with the examples you both provided. Occultly sound good. Hope the article stated comes into use after study... Thanks friends. -- (SuperGirlsVibrator (talk) 19:18, 1 March 2015 (UTC))

Correct sentence choosing help
How shall I write this?


 * 1) They also made adult video clips together.
 * 2) They also made adult porno video clips together.

(SuperGirlsVibrator (talk) 18:15, 28 February 2015 (UTC))


 * "Adult video" is a euphemism for pornography, so the second sentence is redundant. I would either say:


 * "adult video" (if you're trying to make it sound respectable)


 * "porno" (if speaking casually and don't want it to sound respectable)


 * "pornographic video" (if talking formally and don't want it to sound respectable)


 * StuRat (talk) 19:17, 28 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Bulletin 3, but a little confused with user:98.114.146.189 words. I'll use both if I possibly can... Thank you! -- (SuperGirlsVibrator (talk) 19:18, 1 March 2015 (UTC))


 * Another alternative, the most neutral I can think of, is "sexually-explicit video". --98.114.146.189 (talk) 19:21, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Sounds amazing! Thanks. -- (SuperGirlsVibrator (talk) 19:18, 1 March 2015 (UTC))
 * sexually explicit (I wouldn't hyphenate) is somewhat redundant. I wonder why it's not explicitly sexual.  —Tamfang (talk) 23:32, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I've heard the words before, what you stated goes better though... Thank you. -- (SuperGirlsVibrator (talk) 08:33, 2 March 2015 (UTC))


 * To me, "clips" implies extracts from a longer work, so you can't really "make a clip" in the sense implied by the examples. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 09:54, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
 * The words meaning did not 'ring the bell' in my head until now that you actually stated. I'll keep it up to the word video. Thank you. -- (SuperGirlsVibrator (talk) 19:18, 1 March 2015 (UTC))

Auld Henrie?
I can't find any attestations for it, but I am fairly certain that Auld Henrie is another name for the Grim Reaper.

I saw it long ago somewhere used for that purpose, and I saw it again some time later.

Can anyone find any attestations of this? Tharthandorf Aquanashi (talk) 18:20, 28 February 2015 (UTC)


 * That does ring a tiny bell, and I wonder if Henry is related to the Germans' "Friend Hein" (Freund Hein schleicht ums haus). --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  19:06, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
 * That's quite possible. Tharthandorf Aquanashi (talk) 23:00, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

"Loin" etymology ?
In beef, it means the lower back (that's the US English usage, and the British English usage is a bit broader), while with humans it seems to mean the crotch. How did we get these two different meanings ? StuRat (talk) 19:12, 28 February 2015 (UTC)


 * "How" comes from the etymology, cognate with lumbar and lumbago. The muscle called the tenderloin in American english is equally prized in poultry and hoofed mammals. μηδείς (talk) 22:39, 28 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Or in Brooklyn, it's what da kids do in school. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:46, 28 February 2015 (UTC)


 * ..."Dat's wat da kits do in skoowle" if you want to be precise. μηδείς (talk) 02:22, 1 March 2015 (UTC)


 * What is "skoowle" supposed to signify that is different from "school". Are you saying that they say /sku:l/ instead of /skul/? If so, I don't think that they are the only ones that do that. Tharthandorf Aquanashi (talk) 21:18, 1 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I defer to Medeis' experience and knowledge on all things New Yawk. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:29, 1 March 2015 (UTC)


 * If you want to go all George Costanza on the accent, it's [skuəl]. Given that's a "long u" phoneme there's no problem transcribing it as /sku:l/ or /skul/, but there is a marked difference between a Brooklyn/Queens accent (which is what BBB was giving) and the rest of the country, including the Bronx and upper Manhattan in how the long /u/ is realized.  Except for being rhotic and lacking the bath-trap split educated Manhattanites, including Harlem residents, sound quite like RP speakers.  This is all my own OR, so feel free to disregard it. μηδείς (talk) 23:38, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I can't figure out what you mean by the schwa in [skuəl]. How do you distinguish the schwa from a syllabic /l/?  In my mix-of-a-whole-bunch-of-things-but-mostly-California accent, the /l/ in "school" is almost syllabic.  How should I understand George's "school" to be different? --Trovatore (talk) 16:25, 2 March 2015 (UTC)


 * It's just a matter of convention. I prefer syllabic consonant transcriptions myself, but when I was taught phonics in the 70's we were told all separate syllables have a vowel, and schwa was the vowel where you couldn't hear any distinct long or short a e i o u or the boy and how diphthongs.  Of course we were also taught that a little puff of air you could feel with you hand to your mouth signaled stress, so I automatically identified any word starting with an aspirated voiceless stop as having initial stress.  Our teachers were quite ignorant of linguistic phonetics. μηδείς (talk) 17:19, 3 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Californian English is not the most conservative form of English (it is quite nearly the very opposite). It is often hard to explain things like this in a way that would be sufficient for understanding to speakers of such a dialect. I suppose I would say that /l/ is not generally syllabic, so... just think of a non-syllabic /l/. If you can't do that then I don't know what to say. Tharthandorf Aquanashi (talk) 22:28, 2 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I think the use to mean "crotch" is really just a metaphor or euphemism to refer to that area down below, you know what I mean, I don't have to spell it out for you". And loin is used to mean "loin" in humans as well, as in "gird your loins". Iapetus (talk) 14:44, 2 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I suppose it's similar to how somebody with diarrhea might say they have "an upset stomach" rather than "an upset colon". StuRat (talk) 22:55, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Also. the American phrase 'fanny pack', referring to the little bag you strap onto your waist to carry money, passport, etc., means absolutely something different in England.  KägeTorä - ( 影 虎 )  ( Chin Wag )  11:57, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Fanny means "butt" in American English, which is geographically not that far from the British meaning. Also, compare "ass" in standard American English (meaning "butt") and the phrase tap that ass in AAVE.  The meaning overlaps in terms between behinds and female genitalia.  -- Jayron 32 12:10, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
 * 'Geographically'? What a lovely euphemism for 'anatomically'. I think I shall use that from now on, as I explore where no man has gone before. 'Ass' just means 'donkey' in Br.Eng. 'Butt' is the filter for a cigarette. We are disunited by a common language.  KägeTorä - ( 影 虎 )  ( Chin Wag )  12:48, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Modern informal "butt" is short for "buttocks". "Butt" by itself is indicative of the end of something. Even non-Germanic languages like French have borrowed this term, for instance in debut; the "anti-butt" of something, hence the start of something. Tharthandorf Aquanashi (talk) 19:50, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
 * No, Wrong, You're making that up. Buttock is a diminutive form of butt with the -ock suffix. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/buttock μηδείς (talk) 21:14, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
 * So, what does 'C' mean, besides an archaic computer language, and why is it usually in the diminutive. Or is that just me?  KägeTorä - ( 影 虎 )  ( Chin Wag )  16:55, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
 * @Medeis I am making nothing up, you silly person. Whether or not butt was historically used with analogy to "end" as I mentioned before is one thing, but nowadays it is plenty often just short for "buttocks". Tharthandorf Aquanashi (talk) 14:34, 6 March 2015 (UTC)