Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2015 January 5

= January 5 =

Beaver Cleaver
The question about Peter Parker on the Misc Desk has a comment about the name Beaver Cleaver getting past censors on American television. This got me wondering, when did 'beaver' become a slang term for vagina or a woman's pubic region in general? Dismas |(talk) 01:13, 5 January 2015 (UTC)


 * 1927, according to the Online Etymological Dictionary []. Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 01:38, 5 January 2015 (UTC)


 * The OED Online also has 1927 as the earliest cite for this usage. They relate it to an earlier sense (1910) that referred to a bearded man or his beard itself; but the etymology of this is shown as unknown, i.e. they don't know whether it relates to the animal or not. The 1927 use, by the way, is in an anonymous collection of erotic American poetry, songs, etc., titled Immortalia. --65.94.50.4 (talk) 05:43, 5 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Harry "Beaver" Cleavage escaped Right to Censor by debuting the previous June. Like one of those Pre-Code sex films, only with no artistic merit whatsoever. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:43, 6 January 2015 (UTC)


 * I am surprised no one has linked to there rather obvious beaver cleavers. μηδείς (talk) 18:21, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Those certainly would have seen a lot of use in the heyday of the North American fur trade. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:27, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Followup to Like how does "medicus" become "miège"?! It's a crazy language.
asked in a thread above, how does "medicus" become "miège" in French.

It's an example of the general rule, Latin -aticus > French -age. (More generally a final -VDicV- sequence, where V = a vowel and D = d or t. I have also left out most indications of stress and accent.)

For example, Late Lat. formaticus "cheese" > Fr. fromage and viaticum > voyage. The change sequence is -aticus > [adijə] > [addjə] > [addʒə} > [a:ʒ]. This also happens with -edicus, hence pedica "snare" > piège and medicus > miège. μηδείς (talk) 18:36, 5 January 2015 (UTC)


 * PS The source is From Latin to Romance in Sound Charts, Peter Boyd-Bowman, p 21. μηδείς (talk) 18:40, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

I have a little book Les Noms de Lieux by Charles Rostaing, and radical transformations are by no means rare. So Epomanduodurum becomes Mandeure, Nemetodurum becomes Nanterre, Gratianopolis becomes Grenoble, Aureliacum becomes Orly, Sabiniacum becomes Sévigny, Blesae Vicus becomes Blévy, Forum Julii becomes Fréjus, etc. The Latin word Oratorium (referring to a kind of church) can become Oroux, Ouroux, Le Loroux, Le Loreur, Auroir, Aurouer, Oroer, Orouer, Ourouer, Orrouer, Ouzouer, Louzouer, Ozouer, Ozoir, Oradou, L'Oradou, and Lourdoueix in various different areas of France... AnonMoos (talk) 23:48, 5 January 2015 (UTC)


 * I think my favourite French word is actually "selon", which is (possibly) "secundum longum" where most of the syllables disappeared. Adam Bishop (talk)

I should mention by the way that I did know how medicus turns into miège (in some dialects it actually became simply "mie"), I was just being a bit facetious in the other thread. But once in awhile I still come across a weird word and it reminds me of that extremely frustrating period when I first started to learn the language. I might start talking to the text itself, telling it "no, Old French, that is ridiculous, this word cannot be." It's like reading modern French chatspeak sometimes. Adam Bishop (talk) 16:24, 6 January 2015 (UTC)


 * So all that work, and now he tells me!
 * BTW, my favorite French word is "outrage". μηδείς (talk) 19:11, 6 January 2015 (UTC)