Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2015 July 16

= July 16 =

German saints
What's the difference between de:Sankt and de:Heiliger? Nyttend (talk) 16:57, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Nothing really, except that heilig is a regular adjective meaning 'holy', whereas Sankt only exists as a conventional title as part of proper names. Otherwise both mean the same thing. Heilig can replace Sankt when referring to individual saints ("der heilige Petrus", "Sankt Petrus"), but "sankt" could never be used elsewhere outside such names. Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:04, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
 * It's very similar in English. We could have the holy Mary or Saint Mary. However, in my town of Northampton, there is a church called the Holy Sepulchre, I have heard people get upset about it being referred to as Saint Sepulchre, on the principle that there never was a person called Sepulchre. I think we have the French/Latin to thank for saint, and the German/old English to thank for holy. Sankt must have sneaked into German by the back door. Myrvin (talk) 09:45, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
 * "Sankt" is more likely used in names (of towns, short "St."), "Heilige(r)" is translated in German and used to describe the status. -- Hans Haase (有问题吗) 10:20, 17 July 2015 (UTC)


 * On the English use of "Saint" and "Holy", see this previous thread, also Hospital of St Cross and St Saviour's Church. Alansplodge (talk) 11:34, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Willya look at that! Thanks A. Myrvin (talk) 11:37, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Don't forget St. God's Memorial Hospital. If you haven't seen it, it's a joke from Idiocracy. --108.38.204.15 (talk) 15:48, 17 July 2015 (UTC)


 * I know I don't often like bringing in etymology, but in this case it is informative: Heiliger and Holy come from the Greek "Ἁγία" or "Hagia" meaning, well, holy. The Latin synonym is "Sancta", from which we get the German Sankt and the English Saint (and other words like "to sanctify", which means, "To be made holy").  While there are distinct shades of meanings in the different definitions between the modern English words "Holy" and "Saint", they complex history between the two words means there is a LOT of cross over.  -- Jayron 32 21:46, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
 * You're surely not suggesting that "holy" and "heilig" are derived from Greek, ? --ColinFine (talk) 23:27, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
 * There's certainly no mention of that in the OED. It goes on a bit, but only back to OE and thence to Germanic. No Greek. Myrvin (talk) 08:50, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
 * My favourite holy comment comes from the TV programme Morse. Lewis says to Morse, about a young woman in a dog-collar, "Isn't she a bit 'holier-than-though, Sir'?" Morse replies, "She IS holier than thou, Lewis.". Myrvin (talk) 08:56, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
 * From my daily browsure of random articles, I observe that, if the process continues to finality, we will one day have a Saint John Hardon. If there's a German Pope then, I expect to hear him referring to the canonisee as "the Holy Hardon".  Hmmm .........  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  07:59, 19 July 2015 (UTC)