Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2015 July 28

= July 28 =

Opposite of irony
Using the definition of irony to be something stated as truth when it is actually meant as false, such as "It is a beautiful day" when it is raining, what is a word that means the opposite: purposely stating something as false, meaning the truth, such as "What a terrible day" when it is warm and beautiful. All I've found is "pessimistic", which is similar, but not the same. I'm not looking for the attitude of the person, but a word that encompasses the action. 209.149.113.45 (talk) 13:19, 28 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Your "definition of irony to be something stated as truth when it is actually meant as false" is problematic. Try define:irony in Google.
 * Irony is far more often defined as a statement having the opposite implication or effect than its literal sense. Thus, true->false and false->true could both be ironic. -- Paulscrawl (talk) 13:58, 28 July 2015 (UTC)


 * I would say the opposite is sincerity: something true stated as truth; or something false stated as false; a "pure" statement. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:55, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't know, Bugs. Irony doesn't imply the absence of sincerity, exactly; it's a language tool. Someone being ironic isn't a liar, s/he is being ironic. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:57, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Read EO's definitions of irony and sincerity. Irony isn't lying, but it isn't exactly sincere, either. It's intended to be funny. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:07, 28 July 2015 (UTC)


 * I think the OP is searching for a verbal distinction between deprecatory or negative irony ("It is a beautiful day" when it is raining) and laudatory or positive irony ("What a terrible day" when it is warm and beautiful). No such single words exist, to my knowledge. -- Paulscrawl (talk) 14:44, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Either way, it's saying the opposite. Like when someone is a good hitter, baseball commentators will often say, "Not too bad of a hitter." ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:53, 28 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Irony. If you look at those options, most are about the difference between the literal meaning and the intended/interpreted meaning. Both of your examples have irony, specifically Irony. Getting in to truth values just confuses the issue, irony is ultimately about different meanings. (ETA, restoring my previous response, looks like User:Paulscrawl accidentally deleted it )SemanticMantis (talk) 13:47, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

Starting with "Euphemy" (an archaic term for "euphemism" but which sounds a trifle classier ) I ended up at "Periploce" to indicate a substitution of what is pleasant for what is unpleasant. Viz. Seattle "liquid sunshine" etc. Collect (talk) 15:02, 28 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Apologies User:SemanticMantis,for cross-posting errors - first cup of coffee.
 * Truth values as a fallacious definitional assumption of irony are source of OP's question.
 * Two words that are not blind to truth values are litotes and hyperbole, but they are not forms of irony, rather, distinct figures of speech. -- Paulscrawl (talk) 15:10, 28 July 2015 (UTC)


 * I think what most people consider irony (our article covers it well) would be something like the following reported case:


 * A wife, feeling her husband did not give her sufficient provision, filed for divorce
 * On 31 March she secured a decree nisi in the usual form, that is to say she could make it absolute after three months
 * On 30 June the husband, who had left a substantial estate entirely to his wife, died.
 * On 1 July the wife, not knowing of the death, made the decree absolute.

The husband's solicitors, who were administering the estate, told her she was nothing to do with it and could not inherit, whereupon she applied to the Court for the decree absolute to be rescinded and lost her case, the irony being that if she had not registered the decree she would have inherited as the lawful wife.

This "cooling off" period is valuable. I know one couple where the wife obtained a decree nisi but never registered it, and many decades later they remain happily married. 86.159.14.114 (talk) 16:06, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

At ANI, which is about as legal as Wikipedia gets (short of a full - blown Arbitration Committee hearing) sometimes the OP (plaintiff)'s complaint (case) against the editor under discussion (defendant) is thrown out by the administrator (judge) either for lack of diffs (evidence) or because he penalises the OP instead (judgment). This latter may result in comments from the peanut gallery on the lines of ''Love these boomerangs. Oh, the delicious irony of it''. 86.159.14.114 (talk) 16:39, 28 July 2015 (UTC) Didn't Paul McCartney make a song called 'Ebony and Irony'? 82.35.216.24 (talk) 01:30, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

I'd go with "literalness". Or maybe "rusty". Clarityfiend (talk) 10:01, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Didn't Paul McCartney make a song with Stevie Wonder called 'Ebony and Irony'? KägeTorä - (影虎)  ( もしもし！ ) 23:09, 30 July 2015 (UTC)