Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2015 July 8

= July 8 =

Arabic commons category label requests related to Detroit, New York City, and Philadelphia
What is "Schools of Detroit Public Schools" in Arabic? "Detroit Public Schools" is مدارس ديترويت الحكومية. I started Commons:Category:Detroit Public Schools schools and would like to have an Arabic label for that category.

In addition I am interested in having Arabic names of the following:
 * Commons:Category:New York City Department of Education schools ("New York City Department of Education = إدارة تعليم مدينة نيويورك)
 * Commons:Category:Schools in New York City
 * Commons:Category:Elementary schools in New York City
 * Commons:Category:Middle schools in New York City
 * Commons:Category:High schools in New York City
 * Commons:Category:Schools in the Bronx, New York City‎
 * Commons:Category:Schools in Brooklyn, New York City‎
 * Commons:Category:Schools in Manhattan, New York City‎
 * Commons:Category:Schools in Queens, New York City‎
 * Commons:Category:Schools in Staten Island, New York City‎

Thanks, WhisperToMe (talk) 04:21, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Have you tried finding someone at Translators available and collaborating with an active Wikipedian who is fluent in both Arabic and English rather than asking piecemeal here for every possible request? If you have someone who is willing to work with you, you could point them in the direction that needs work, and maybe they'll just do it all... -- Jayron 32 07:26, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Ok, I could try to do that and see if any of these work WhisperToMe (talk) 11:25, 8 July 2015 (UTC)



--Meno25 (talk) 10:48, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Detroit Public Schools schools=مدارس منطقة مدارس ديترويت العامة
 * New York City Department of Education schools=مدارس إدارة تعليم مدينة نيويورك
 * Schools in New York City=مدارس مدينة نيويورك
 * Elementary schools in New York City=مدارس ابتدائية في مدينة نيويورك
 * Middle schools in New York City= مدارس إعدادية في مدينة نيويورك
 * High schools in New York City=مدارس ثانوية في مدينة نيويورك
 * Schools in the Bronx, New York City‎=مدارس ذا برونكس في مدينة نيويورك
 * Schools in Brooklyn, New York City=مدارس بروكلين في مدينة نيويورك
 * Schools in Manhattan, New York City=مدارس مانهاتن في مدينة نيويورك
 * Schools in Queens, New York City‎=مدارس كوينز في مدينة نيويورك
 * Schools in Staten Island, New York City=مدارس جزيرة ستاتن في مدينة نيويورك

Title "Ms.": translations
The English language has a title "Ms.", designating a woman without specifying her marital status. What equivalent expressions do other languages have? (I am interested in all languages, including very large languages, very small languages, extinct languages, revived languages, and artificial languages.) —Wavelength (talk) 20:25, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Spanish: Señorita. French: Mademoiselle. Chinese: 小姐 xiaojie WhisperToMe (talk) 20:26, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I learned the Spanish title "Señorita" and the French title "Mademoiselle" to be equivalent to the English title "Miss", designating a woman and specifying that she is unmarried . My question is about titles equivalent to the English title "Ms.", designating a woman without specifying her marital status.
 * —Wavelength (talk) 21:16, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
 * While the English-language article Ms. does not mention usages in other languages, its counterpart in German includes a list of 11 language equivalents where the former equivalent of "Mrs." is now used like "Ms."; contrary to what Whisper writes, these include Spanish and French. The article goes on to say list 9 of the corresponding diminutive forms, which it says are still used like our "Miss". But the article's scope does not go beyond European languages. --174.88.133.209 (talk) 21:23, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
 * That article says "Madame" and "Señora". I picked "Señorita" and "Mademoiselle" because if she's a young woman you assume she's not married unless she tells you she is. In French that would be "Mademoiselle" (another user said the default in Spanish, though, is "Señora") . I guess if she's an older woman then you assume she's married and use "Madame" and "Señora" WhisperToMe (talk) 04:22, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Google Translate suggests "Sra." for Spanish and "Mme." for French. Maybe something like those could work for ambiguous abbreviations. However, the real problem is pronunciation: "Ms." is typically pronounced "Mizz" and isn't really short for anything, it's kind of a combination of "Mrs." and "Miss". So there would need to be a Spanish word that's a combination of "señora" and "señorita". It's not obvious how that would work. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:44, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
 * In French there is no equivalent to "Ms.". If you don't know whether a woman is married or not, you must use "Mme" which is the shortened form of Madame. Akseli9 (talk) 22:21, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
 * It depends if they're young or old. If they are young you assume they are not married. 30 or over you switch. WhisperToMe (talk) 11:23, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
 * This relatively new manner exists only since about two decades, appeared around the same time as the new manner of doubling everything by its feminine and its masculine form while speaking. It doesn't quite work well, because since your calling "Mademoiselle" to a woman has to mean she looks young, then your calling "Madam" to a woman, implies that she necessarily looks old. Then she has to feel embarrassed and correct you by saying "Mademoiselle", in order for you to stop believing she's so old. That's one of the reasons why most people stick to the old neutral manner of calling every woman "Madam", except, yes, for the obviously very young ones, like students. Akseli9 (talk) 12:18, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
 * The same for Spanish, if you don't know, you use señora ("Mrs.") μηδείς (talk) 03:20, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
 * That accounts for Google Translate's "Mme." and "Sra." It follows, in general usage in America, that if you're trying to get a women's attention, you say "Ma'am" or perhaps "Miss" if she's obviously young. I don't think I've ever heard anyone try to get her attention by saying "Ms." ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:25, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
 * In Persian, its equivalent is خانم (xɒːnom). Omidinist (talk) 03:28, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
 * In French, the term "Madelle" was proposed in the 1980s as an exact equivalent of Ms. It never achieved any popularity. . --Xuxl (talk) 09:24, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I suspect one reason "Ms" is popular is because it's 2 characters long, like "Mr". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 12:17, 9 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Japanese has '-san' or '-sama' (more polite) which is entirely gender neutral, and does not reflect marital status. KägeTorä - (影虎)  ( もしもし！ ) 10:25, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
 * The Portuguese are smart.  Senhora is an all - purpose abbreviation.   I was told that if writing to a woman whose title you do not know you should address her as "Miss". 87.81.147.76 (talk) 11:26, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
 * That worked in English schools when I was there. All female teachers were Miss. No-one ever said to a married one, "Excuse me missus." Myrvin (talk) 10:39, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Hence the use of "Ma'am". You don't says "Mrs." by itself, it's used with their last name. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:38, 14 July 2015 (UTC)


 * In Swedish, a married woman is "fru" and an unmarried woman is "fröken", the latter abbreviated "frk". Nowadays the titles are not used much, but without being widely accepted, one equivalent to "Ms" sometimes used is "fr." (albeit only in writing, as far as I know). 83.251.77.222 (talk) 17:55, 13 July 2015 (UTC)


 * I worked for a German company for many years, and was frequently in Germany. The impression I had was that one always presumes Frau in a business setting (or for anyone who is an adult), and at most only presumes Fräulein for an obviously young girl. The article I hyperlinked to confirms that. StevenJ81 (talk) 20:20, 13 July 2015 (UTC)