Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2015 June 2

= June 2 =

'uman rights and 'elf 'n' safety
The earlier question about apheresis reminded be of something that's been puzzling me for some time. In the UK, it seems to be commonplace for people who write letters to (or opinion pieces in) newspapers criticising health and safety or human rights legislation to refer to them as 'elf 'n' safety or 'uman rights. Does anyone here know what the purpose is of this apheresis? Is it supposed to be a parody of the supposed accent or manerisms of people that care about health and safety / human rights? (And if so, what accent is it meant to be and why the association?) Or is it supposed to represent something else? Iapetus (talk) 10:17, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I think maybe they are intended as more a parody of the kind of blind-obedience-without-understanding that sometimes surrounds this legislation. And the notion that they are so ubiquitous that they have become "slang words." One can of course easily imagine these being parrotted out by London cab drivers. See elfin_safety. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:29, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
 * See the Wikipedia article titled eye dialect. WP:WHAAOE.  -- Jayron 32 13:32, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Also in part another version of the irregular verb format (I am firm, you are obstinate, (third person pronoun) is as stubborn as a mule) - if one agrees with it/finds it useful it is human rights/health and safety, if opposed it is 'uman rights and 'elf 'n' safety. Jackiespeel (talk) 10:04, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
 * The thing about all that that puzzles me is that - as the article says - eye-dialect is often used to suggest superiority over the people who supposedly talk like that. But the (stereotypical) London cabbie is more likely to be complaining about over-the-top H&S / HR laws rather than blindly obeying them.  So essentially, the writers are parodying people who agree with them.  Is this then meant to be a way of showing (claiming) that "Ordinary hard-working people agree with me"?  Iapetus (talk) 10:17, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
 * "Elf 'n' safety" evokes a middle-to-upper-class person being stymied and frustrated by a jobsworth, someone of a lower class who nonetheless has the upper hand because he represents bureaucracy. The lower class person would, in London at least, stereotypically drop their aitches.
 * Upper-middle-class person: But I left my handbag in there!
 * Fluorescent-jacketed steward: Can't let you in luv. More 'n my job's worth. 'Elf 'n' safety, innit.
 * There is also a common stereotype of lower class people using 'human rights' to defend inexcusable behaviour, more out of a vague sense of entitlement than actual legal knowledge. "You can't give my Wayne detention! It's against 'is 'uman rights!" --87.224.68.42 (talk) 10:31, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Hmmm. I guess I just need to recalibrate my prejudices.  I thought the stereotype was more about lawyers, upper-middle class liberals, ivory-tower intellectuals etc coming up with absurd, ideologically-driven rules that "ordinary, hardworking people"(tm) can see are nonsense. Iapetus (talk) 09:10, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Also, as in other contexts, intonation/facial expression - or which newspaper is using the phrase - can affect the meaning. (And sometimes the speaker wishes to say 'it isn't practical (for various reasons' or 'you are annoying me' and uses the jobsworth/elf and safety to fob the person off. Jackiespeel (talk)
 * Iapetus, it is used mostly disparagingly, that nobody can get any work done becase of elfin safety (I don't know where they get the elves from.) So it is used mostly in a sarcastic manner. The H dropping is intended to indicate the speech patterns of the lower classes (such as myself): Although apparently it is perfectly fine on "An Hotel" and so forth. where to say "A hotel" or "A ho'el" (with a glottal stop on the T) is de trop and far too common.


 * But actually, the Health and Safety at Work Act sometimes known as HASAWA is perfectly sensible and says you have a responsibility to take care of yourself, then a responsibility to take care of others. (I know, because I had to take it for my BTEC, many years ago). It has been loaded, in my opinion, by the ambulance chasers, particularly after lawyers were allowed to advertise on UK television. Si Trew (talk) 01:03, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Pronunciation of "Blayac"
Can anyone tell me how to pronounce the French surname "Blayac", as in Jérémy Blayac? In terms an Englishman would understand if possible. Cheers. --87.224.68.42 (talk) 10:33, 2 June 2015 (UTC)


 * The IPA is [bla'jak]. If you don't understand IPA, the French [a] sound is similar to the vowel in the English word black as it is pronounced in Wales and most of England, particularly in the North, but NOT as it is pronounced in America or in traditional Received Pronunciation (what you might call a plummy accent). So the English pronunciation is bla YAK, with a very slight emphasis on the second syllable. Marco polo (talk) 13:45, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Marco polo is right, in Southern English it is more a glissando or slur between the pure vowels,the tongue is already kinda reaching to the next sound so it slurs along the way. Which causes me no end of trouble in Hungary, where Ó Ö O and Ő are different sounds (all the same to me. I can write them, I can speak them, but I don't hear them: I get offered a wife when I want salt, am I the renicarnation of Lot?). Si Trew (talk) 01:29, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
 * No. Not even his reincarnation.  You're probably just chopped liver.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  03:53, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

"All but..."
What exactly does this phrase mean? When you say 'experiments have all but ceased', does it mean they have completely ceased, or that they are continuing, albeit in a reduced state? KägeTorä - (影虎) ( もしもし！ ) 11:24, 2 June 2015 (UTC)


 * The latter. 95.103.235.200 (talk) 11:45, 2 June 2015 (UTC)


 * "In a reduced state" doesn't quite cover it. It means that they have almost entirely ceased. --Viennese Waltz 12:17, 2 June 2015 (UTC)


 * As in, they are about as close to having ceased as they could be, without having totally ceased. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:07, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Requested translation: What are the terms in File:China Airlines Flight 140 EN.svg in Chinese?
In File:China Airlines Flight 140 EN.svg what are the terms in Chinese in this document? For bustle I presume it is "A cover to protect and hide the back panel of a computer or other office machine." (from wiktionary:bustle)

Thanks! WhisperToMe (talk) 19:10, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I can't answer your main question, but I think bustle refers specifically to the cover of the stored evacuation slide. See the second paragraph of the linked article. Deor (talk) 22:53, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you for answering that question! WhisperToMe (talk) 21:25, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Leo Marriot or Leo Marriott?
This may be the wrong section to ask, but the military author's name is spelled both ways, in hundreds of citations in Wikipedias of many languages, in thousands of websites, and even on his own book covers. This Leo Marriott is probably a different person. Art LaPella (talk) 23:37, 2 June 2015 (UTC)


 * I don't see an article on Leo Marriott. If there were an article, and if his name was spelled in two ways, Leo Marriot should be a redirect.  Maybe there should be an article on him.  Robert McClenon (talk) 15:36, 3 June 2015 (UTC)


 * No there isn't an article, and yes, there probably should be an article on someone we cite so often. The existing problem is that we have so many misspelled citations, one way or the other. Art LaPella (talk) 16:09, 3 June 2015 (UTC)


 * He's Leo Marriott on LinkedIn . 178.221.165.11 (talk) 19:37, 3 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Thank you. That led me to his publishing website, where I was able to email Mr. Marriot(t) directly. Art LaPella (talk) 20:26, 3 June 2015 (UTC)