Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2015 March 29

= March 29 =

Causative and Passive in Japanese
This is a very specific question which has bugged me for a long time, but despite asking my Japanese friends, no-one knows the answer. Why is it that the causative and passive endings on verbs in Classical Japanese switched roles in Modern Japanese? KägeTorä - (影虎) ( もしもし！ ) 04:46, 29 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I only had time to read the abstract, and I know almost no Japanese (outside a little I pick up from anime :) Anyway, I think this paper, along with forward and backward citations might get you pretty close to your answer. The TOC of this book also looks promising. Let me know if you figure it out? SemanticMantis (talk) 14:42, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

River names
Where can I find the etyomology of the names of the rivers Anabar, Yana, Kolyma & Indigirka? --151.41.185.32 (talk) 17:47, 29 March 2015 (UTC)


 * The Russian article on the Kolyma river suggests *kol' or *kul' as a Yakut language or Turkic language word for "river". The same article suggests a possible origin from the unrelated Yukaghir language.  Neither claim has a reference.  Given the current day Yakut name for the river is the Khalyma, a Yakut origin is called into question; it would have been borrowed from Yakut to Russian, then back to Yakut, and the Yakut are recent comers, while the Yukaghir represent the oldest remaining indigenous peoples of the area. μηδείς (talk) 21:28, 29 March 2015 (UTC)


 * The Russian article suggests the Indigirka is named for a people called the "Indi", with the Evenk language using -gir as a suffix "people" in ethnonyms. The Russian article offers a source.


 * Neither the Russian, nor the French or German articles give any etymological information for the Yana, but the German article mentions that the Yakut name for it is Džaangy, which suggests a linguistic substrate origin.


 * The Russian article on the Anabar mentions only that the Yakut call it the Anabyr. The French and German articles mention nothing about the name.


 * μηδείς (talk) 21:49, 29 March 2015 (UTC)


 * For the origin of Anabar, this Russian toponymical dictionary gives two hypotheses. The older one is that It comes from Koryak or Chukchi Vanavara, from vanov, "tar". But since those peoples are not known to have lived in the area, B. Syulbe proposed that it comes ultimately from Yukagir enu, anu, "river", which was taken into Evenki with their own suffix bira, "river", to make Anubira, which became Yakut Anaabyr, and then Russian Anabar. Lesgles (talk) 03:06, 30 March 2015 (UTC)


 * If it's true that (as I've read somewhere) river names are among the most durable of toponyms, the languages in which they were coined may have gone extinct without any other trace! —Tamfang (talk) 05:41, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Certainly true in England where rivers have often retained Celtic names dating from before the Anglo-Saxon settlement of Britain in the 5th and 6th centuries AD. There are several River Avons, a word which just means "river" in Brittonic languages. Alansplodge (talk) 10:20, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
 * There are even a few with presumed pre-Celtic names. I live near one, the Itchen (our article doesn't mention this, but I've read it in other toponymic works). {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 212.95.237.92 (talk) 14:32, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I have added a brief Etymology section to the River Itchen article, Alansplodge (talk) 18:03, 30 March 2015 (UTC)


 * We have a list of river name etymologies.... and see also this 1862 source.   Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:26, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
 * See also Hydronym. Alansplodge (talk) 18:07, 30 March 2015 (UTC)