Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2015 October 7

= October 7 =

How kids these days write
When you get an email from someone who does not seem to know what punctuation is what do you think about it do you think they would be able to write correctly if they wanted to or it's even the new normal considering that language changes couldn't that be just how people write now or it's a sign of sloppy thinking--YX-1000A (talk) 12:58, 7 October 2015 (UTC)


 * lel. Adam Bishop (talk) 13:01, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
 * There are three apostrophes and the capital W that the OP needs to remove, I think. Tevildo (talk) 14:32, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I suspect you forgot the dot (full stop) at the end of your post, didn't you? HOOTmag (talk) 13:15, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
 * What is your question that somebody might be able to answer from references? You might like to look at punctuation, to see how arbitrary, language-dependent, and time-bound, systems of punctuation are. --ColinFine (talk) 14:00, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
 * OP is probably wondering if kids who grow up texting their friends quite a bit with their own shorthand are able to integrate into a workplace where they have to communicate effectively using standard English/Spanish/etc. spelling and grammar. I've heard stories about this on NPR, so I assume that there are references out there somewhere. That said, I'm at work reading chats with shorthand and emails with proper grammar right now and don't have time to look for those references... Dismas |(talk) 14:06, 7 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Not about punctuation per se, but here's a handful of news pieces reporting on scientific studies that have given evidence that texting slang can help improve young people's spelling and grammar   . You might also want to read about code switching and Register_(sociolinguistics).  SemanticMantis (talk) 15:19, 7 October 2015 (UTC)


 * A few other things to consider: 1)Have you ever received a message like that? With no punctuation? l33tsp34k and texting slang and whatever else you want to call it don't normally work that way. 2) Even if you do see messages like that, consider that the writers are in good company - "Ancient Greek was written scripta continua without spacing or interpuncts" (Greek_orthography). soallthesesocalledkidsthesedaysareactuallywritingsomethinglikeplatodidandthatdoesntsoundsoterribledoesit :) SemanticMantis (talk) 17:14, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
 * In ancient Greece only the leisured classes were literate, and there was a much much smaller volume of written material; so it didn't matter that they had to spend longer in deciphering it. Would you regard boustrophedon as acceptable just because the ancient Greeks did it?Ehrenkater (talk) 17:32, 8 October 2015 (UTC)


 * I get several poorly written messages, both in English from native English speakers and equivalent messages in other languages.
 * I wonder if it's a question of just an informal register, of evolution of language, or poor education/sloppy thinking. I'd check the links above. --YX-1000A (talk) 17:49, 7 October 2015 (UTC)


 * I do think it's a sign of sloppy thinking, since they don't seem to consider how it can be misread by others, without punctuation. "Don't ! Stop !" means something entirely different from "Don't stop !", and, if lacking any punctuation at all, it's completely unclear what it means (especially since texts lack all the other visual and nonverbal cues we typically depend upon). StuRat (talk) 18:05, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
 * It could be any of the above, and I'd caution against assuming any one explanation covers most cases. WP:OR In my academic life, some of the worst typos and poorest grammar in emails comes not from students, but from internationally recognized researchers with hundreds of publications and thousands of citations! Clearly these people know how to both well and formally. But if they're responding to email via cell phone at an airport, they aren't going to mess around with formatting and extraneous punctuation, and understanding the message is seldom a problem. Basically, the unwritten rule for "register" of email is that it depends on your relative positions in the social hierarchy, how important the subject matter is, and how much time you have. SemanticMantis (talk) 18:27, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I think poor formatting can serve positive purposes. By showing hasty preparation one communicates the offhandedness of the email. Failure to punctuate properly alerts the reader to an informal intention in that which is being said. A military leader emailing a subordinate to "show em who's boss" is communicating a different message from a military leader emailing a subordinate to "open fire at noon with our previously-discussed weaponry". Sometimes you want to show that your words were chosen carefully. Other times you want to convey that what you are saying is off-the-cuff and merely representative of a general inclination. Bus stop (talk) 14:13, 8 October 2015 (UTC)


 * The article "Texting effect on writing skills" might be helpful.—Wavelength (talk) 23:46, 9 October 2015 (UTC)