Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2016 December 1

= December 1 =

Former 86-year-old
Reading the BBC News site about Buzz Aldrin being evacuated from Antarctica, they say...

"The former 86-year-old astronaut was visiting Antarctica..."

Is this correct English? Doesn't this mean that Buzz Aldrin WAS 86 years old in the past but now is somewhat older and that he is an astronaut? Wouldn't it have been more correct to say "The 86-year-old former astronaut was visiting Antarctica..."

Sorry if I'm being picky. CoeurDeHamster (talk) 14:23, 1 December 2016 (UTC)


 * I agree. --Thomprod (talk) 14:35, 1 December 2016 (UTC)


 * The BBC agrees with you as well - their site has now changed it to read "The 86-year-old former astronaut was visiting Antarctica" - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38172205 Wymspen (talk) 16:41, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Although, technically, if he were 87 years old or older, the first would be correct too... -- Jayron 32 16:52, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
 * One could pick a nit with that. First, I maintain that "The former 12-year old astronaut was visiting..." is strictly false. He never was a 12 year old astronaut. If the "86 year" version will ever become true depends on the understanding of the status as "astronaut" - is it "once an astronaut, always an astronaut", or does one lose that status when one stops being active in the role of an astronaut? The BBC seems to imply the later, hence "former astronaut". Of course, I wouldn't tell Buzz ;-). --Stephan Schulz (talk) 16:58, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
 * How's the BBC doing on "former Italian prime minister" lately? —Tamfang (talk) 00:09, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

"Former" is an adjective, and cannot modify "86-year-old", which is an adjectival phrase. One would need to say "the formerly 86-year-old...", with "formerly as an adverb modifying the AP. In any case, the original word order is sloppy, and the corrected word order is to be preferred. μηδείς (talk) 17:26, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
 * 86-year-old is a perfectly functional noun phrase as well. Consider Q: "Do you have any kids?"  A: "Yes, I have two: a three-year-old and a seven-year-old.  The seven-year-old is just learning to ride his bicycle".  -- Jayron 32 18:55, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
 * It could be, in a different context. In this case astronaut is undoubtedly the subject noun, so 86-year-old can only be interpreted as an adjectival phrase. μηδείς (talk) 22:53, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
 * But "former" can modify "86-year old astronaut", which is a noun phrase. It has different semantics, of course. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 17:37, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I know he is old, but has he been an astronaut for 86 years?   D b f i r s   19:06, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
 * That would be an "86-year astronaut" not an "86-year-old astronaut". Do keep up... -- Jayron 32 19:10, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
 * No, you keep up, and look at the hyphen(s)! ... but I apologise to Stephan Schulz for my nit-picking comment.  I knew perfectly well what he intended.    D b f i r s   19:13, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
 * It's time to 86 this discussion. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:44, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Disagree. That time was 16:41, 1 December 2016. &#8213; Mandruss &#9742;  00:19, 3 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Splunge! μηδείς (talk) 04:48, 3 December 2016 (UTC)