Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2016 December 21

= December 21 =

French putain
When French say putain, do they always mean the equivalent of fuck? Or can it mean cunt in reference to a woman too, provided you want to offend her? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.177.97.63 (talk • contribs)
 * "Putain doesn't mean "fuck". The French word "to fuck" is "foutre" or "enculer", and words that mean "fuck" in other senses are generally derived from these.  "Putain" means "whore" and is already a perfectly offensive thing to call a woman; it is probably related to the English slang word "poontang" (see here) which is closer in meaning to "cunt" in the "female genitals" sense.  -- Jayron 32 03:54, 21 December 2016 (UTC)
 * "Putain" is generally used as a mild expletive in France. A US equivalent would be damn or Goddamn. It's very common and its use usually has nothing to do with prostitution per se. --Xuxl (talk) 13:59, 21 December 2016 (UTC)
 * As an expletive, and in the same situation, I would say "Putain!" in French, but "Fuck!" in English. But to call someone a "putain" would feel old, something my grandfather's generation would have done, not mine, it is not a modern insult. "Salope" was the common way to insult a woman in the movies I was watching growing up in France.  --Lgriot (talk) 18:12, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Here is a guide on how to use "putain". I remember someone in my office loudly exclaimed "PUTAIN!" one day. I'm not sure if he was happy or mad, haha. Adam Bishop (talk) 15:15, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Tsim Sha Tsui
I was looking up the Chinese for the district in Kowloon.

Our article is quite clear that the Chinese rendering is 尖沙嘴. However, when I go to Wiktionary, it treats this as a variant of 尖沙咀, with a different third character.

Looking online finds both and the best description of the difference I can find seem to go down to "also known as", without attempt at further explanation. It is clear that 尖沙咀 is used on the Hong Kong MTR and traffic signs in Hong Kong. The Chinese Wikipedia prefers 尖沙咀 but the Cantonese Wikipedia prefers 尖沙嘴 - but both mention the other form. Wiktionary suggests that the two characters are pronounced the same in Cantonese, but differently in Mandarin (嘴 is , 咀 is ) and that this is not a Simplified/Traditional difference. I see no indication that either is specifically Mandarin or specifically Cantonese.

Can these two forms be used genuinely interchangeably (e.g. "OK" vs. "okay" in English), and if not, what is the difference between them? Kahastok talk 11:06, 21 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Can't really help you much; just pointing out that zh-wp provides this page as a reference for the naming difference, and it seems to contain a discussion of the two spellings. Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:18, 21 December 2016 (UTC)


 * 尖沙咀 is more standard, but it can also be written 尖沙嘴. 嘴 is not a variant of 咀 ... 嘴 means mouth, while 咀 means "to chew" (but 咀 is frequently used in place names, where it means mouth). Both characters have the same pronunciation (zeoi2 in Cantonese) and that's why they are often interchangeable. —Stephen (talk) 14:15, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

Gregg shorthand Hebrew
The Gregg shorthand article says that the system has been adapted for Hebrew.Where can I find more information on this? Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.120.143.245 (talk) 11:49, 21 December 2016 (UTC)
 * The Hebrew Wikipedia page linked to Shorthand has no mention of Gregg shorthand, nor does it cite any sources for reference. A discussion of Hebrew shorthand in Project Ben Yehuda's online blog archive for 2014, mentions the development of a Hebrew shorthand method by Yaakov Maimon based on the German Gabelsberger shorthand. Y. Maimon (Wasserman; 1902-1977) noted there as having transcribed lectures of David Ben-Gurion, was a parliamentary stenographer for Knesset meetings, along with his brother Zvi Maimon. N.B. I've placed template tags for the missing references in both WP articles. You're welcome to post this query on the Hebrew Wikipedia's Language reference desk. -- Deborahjay (talk) 14:03, 22 December 2016 (UTC)