Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2016 March 16

= March 16 =

Can't Find Definition
What does breviloquent mean? It was used by the character Raymond Redding on Blacklist and I can't find a definition anywhere.50.153.125.142 (talk) 03:13, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * From the Latin, it presumably means taking talking briefly or concisely. Robert McClenon (talk) 03:17, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Taking what briefly? Do you mean 'borrowing'? KägeTorä - (影虎)  ( もしもし！ ) 04:51, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I think Robert meant "talking". breviloquent. Rojomoke (talk) 05:07, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes. A typo that would confuse someone who didn't know the Latin roots.  Oops.  Robert McClenon (talk) 01:30, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

I'm looking for a series of four words, which means "to surprise", and which consists of the word "to" - followed by a verb - followed by the words "a surprise".
I wonder if the expression "to do/make a surprise", which is sometimes used in the spoken language, could also be used in the written language. HOTmag (talk) 11:06, 16 March 2016 (UTC)


 * "Give" would work, and if so, these would work too. -- Jayron 32 11:15, 16 March 2016 (UTC)


 * "To reveal a surprise" sounds natural to me, as does "to unveil a surprise", if it's something akin to a work of art. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 11:32, 16 March 2016 (UTC)


 * To spring a surprise on someone. 109.150.174.93 (talk) 11:39, 16 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Yep, 'to spring a surprise' is the obvious one... though I guess you could also 'foist a surprise' (normally for unwelcome surprises) GrahamHardy (talk) 12:26, 16 March 2016 (UTC)


 * "Spring" was my first thought, too, although "unleash" might work with a particularly big surprise (especially a furry one). StuRat (talk) 17:47, 16 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Why exactly four words? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:52, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I meant "not less than four words" (I assume you understand why this can't be less). HOTmag (talk) 00:30, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
 * So you're actually looking for "a series of at least four words"? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:37, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Yeah. For example, the series: "to spring a surprise on", contains five words, and means "to surprise". HOTmag (talk) 07:44, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

How do I correctly punctuate a date range involving years?
Let's say that I need to list a date range (for example, 1978 - 1984). Questions: (1) Do you use a hyphen, an en-dash, or an em-dash? (2) Do you put spaces or no spaces before/after the dash (for example, 1978-1984 versus 1978 - 1984)? (3) And what is the proper format for when the years contain many of the same digits? (For example, if I want to describe 1972 to 1979: Is it 1972-1979 or 1972-79 or 1972-9 ...?)  Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 20:27, 16 March 2016 (UTC)


 * According to WP:MOS
 * In ranges that might otherwise be expressed with to or through:
 * pp. 211–19;  64–75%;   the 1939–45 war
 * Thus, en dash with no spaces, with the 19 omitted from 1945 and the 2 omitted from page 219
 * Loraof (talk) 21:09, 16 March 2016 (UTC)


 * So for 1972 to 1979, is it 1972-79 or 1972-9 ...? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 00:08, 17 March 2016 (UTC)


 * I'd use 1972-79, and pp. 211-219. The only reason we can omit the first two digits on years is that it's customary.  Otherwise, it's likely to cause confusion (211-19 might be taken to mean something like the 19th item on page 211). StuRat (talk) 17:19, 17 March 2016 (UTC)


 * See MOS:DATERANGE. For example, just to be totally aggravating, a person's lifespan does include the full year of death. Clarityfiend (talk) 21:28, 16 March 2016 (UTC)


 * A direct clear, rational quote from WP:MOS in which most editors believe, and Loraof quoted its main part above:
 * "Do not mix en dashes with prepositions like between and from.
 * 450–500 people;
 * between 450 and 500 people, not between 450–500 people;
 * from 450 to 500 people, not from 450–500 people;
 * If negative values are involved, an en dash might be confusing. Use words instead.
 * −10 to 10, not −10–10;
 * The en dash in a range is always unspaced, except when at least one endpoint of the range includes at least one space.
 * 23 July 1790 – 1 December 1791, not 23 July 1790–1 December 1791;
 * 14 May – 2 August 2011, not 14 May–2 August 2011;
 * 10:30 pm Tuesday – 1:25 am Wednesday;  Christmas Day – New Year's Eve;   Christmas 2001 – Easter 2002;
 * 1–17 September;  February–October 2009;   1492? – 7 April 1556;
 * Best absorbed were wavelengths in the range 28 mm – 17 m." [Quotation ended]
 * For most uses of en dashes and em dashes, and where one is allowed to insert a space before/after them, you can read WP:Manual_of_Style. :) Hamid Hassani (talk) 13:31, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
 * That's assuming Joseph is asking for the purposes of Wikipedia. In the wider world, there are more options.  For example, MOS frowns on spaced emdashes in article space &mdash; but I find them useful and natural, and use them freely in talk space. --Trovatore (talk) 21:10, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
 * You dashing rebel, you. Clarityfiend (talk) 01:33, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, all. Geez, who would have thought it would be such a complex issue? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:00, 18 March 2016 (UTC)