Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2016 November 11

= November 11 =

word originality and translation
1) qun tum

2) koon toom

3) qun toom

4) koon tum

I don't know how it is pronounced or spelt, the above is something what I heard. What's the originality and what does it mean?

103.230.107.1 (talk) 09:09, 11 November 2016 (UTC)


 * The only possibilities I can think of are Quantum and something in Arabic (which I don't speak). Perhaps someone else can suggest what was heard?    D b f i r s   09:35, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Quinton, which is the name given to several places in England and named after a Roman game? --TammyMoet (talk) 20:21, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
 * When you heard this, did you know what language was being used? Without knowing which language, it's impossible to guess. —Stephen (talk) 03:33, 12 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Quantum was my first guess too, but pontoon is a distant second guess. StuRat (talk) 04:42, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
 * It sounded like half hindi and half arabic to me, as in "Who are you"... 103.230.104.20 (talk) 07:00, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
 * (EC) Could be Arabic, كنتم (roughly kun tum), meaning "you were" (plural), but as Stephen says above, without more context this is just a guess. Another, but more remote, possibility is Thai; in Thai, คุณ (/kʰun/) is a common title or honorific similar to "mister" but used with first names, so "Mr. Tum" could be heard as "koon tum".--William Thweatt TalkContribs 07:07, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Could it be a phrase in Bengali language?   D b f i r s   11:02, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Or it could be a name.  See Quintin Hogg. 80.44.161.39 (talk) 12:01, 12 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Maybe a mishearing of Kundun? --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  18:30, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Labelling people in photos
I am reading a book written by a Jewess. I have got used to the people in photographs being listed in order from right to left, back row to front row, whereas we would list them from left to right, front to back, but having reached halfway it occurred to me that this is because Hebrew is written from right to left. Is this discrepancy known, and do Chinese speakers list people in columns, from back to front, moving from right to left? 80.44.161.39 (talk) 12:05, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Publishers and their editors generally observe the conventions of the language in which a book is printed, regardless of the direction of the source language. Sometimes translators take shortcuts and retain the original direction of an identifying photo caption, relying on the reader's command of the target language to follow the literal description "second row from the top, third from the right," etc. I've done this when translating captions of historical archival photographs from Hebrew to English, certainly when a group photo includes dozens of identified subjects. This may be the case for electronic publishing as well, likewise for museum exhibits and study materials. In your case, is the book in English and produced by an Anglophone publisher, possibly a judeophile? Was it translated from one of the Jewish languages? And what do you mean by the author being a "Jewess" (or at least share with us: where is this word in active use today?) -- Deborahjay (talk) 15:26, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Given that "Jewess" is dated, offensive, or both, it might be used in dialog to convey that impression about the speaker, or be used in an archly ironic sense to indicate that someone else is thinking of the person in question in an offensive or antiquated way. I also think some people may be uncomfortable with saying "Jew" and mistakenly think adding an "ess" pretties it up. - Nunh-huh 18:15, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I'll cite here the last authenticated usage I can recall, a Feb. 1980 SNL sendup of Jordache jeans featuring Gilda Radner in character as JAP "Rhonda Weiss": "She's the Jewess...". NB: Until I searched and read this transcript of the lyrics, I was convinced they were singing about "Jew-ass jeans". -- Deborahjay (talk) 19:35, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Great shout-back. It's hard to believe some 40 years later that disco was ever a real thing. - Nunh-huh 23:59, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Who are the civility police?  (See 'Controversies about the word "niggardly"' below).   The Oxford English Dictionary has this entry:

Jewess n. ME. [f. JEW n. + -ESS1.]
 * A female Jew; a Jewish woman.

Is the word any more objectionable than "negress", or "poetess"? 92.8.63.27 (talk) 13:00, 16 November 2016 (UTC)


 * See also Tablet magazine's "Is it Cool to say 'Jewess'?", "A roundtable consisting of five women—and one man—debate the merits of using the term ‘Jewess’". ---Sluzzelin talk  13:45, 16 November 2016 (UTC)


 * This is offensive: "I am reading a book written by a Jewess." That term would be offensive, with some exceptions, but the use here is merely gratuitous as it is replacing standard English for no apparent reason. Bus stop (talk) 15:13, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
 * It's also old-fashioned and basically absurd. We never hear the term "Christianess", so "Jewess" is condescending. Terms like "poetess" and "actress" are a bit different, as they describe professions rather than ethnics. But you seldom hear poetess any more, and actress is falling out of fashion. And terms like waiter/waitress and airline steward/stewardess are being supplanted by server and flight attendant. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:30, 16 November 2016 (UTC)