Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2017 December 2

= December 2 =

Old-fashioned window
Hello! How do we call this type of window? Is there a (specific) term for it? Casement? Thank you very much! --หมวดซาโต้ (talk) 08:44, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * See Window. In English, this is an "awning window". Tevildo (talk) 09:46, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * And, as it says there, that is indeed a type of casement window.
 * By the way, the expression in English is "What do we call (something)", not "How do we call (something)". --69.159.60.147 (talk) 22:38, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

Kombinat
What is the precise definition of the Russian word "kombinat", and what is the distinction between it and "zavod"/"fabrika" (the normal Russian words for factory)? Is there a corresponding word in English? 2601:646:8E01:7E0B:9559:4F0F:AF97:BC2A (talk) 09:21, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Combine (enterprise)--William Thweatt TalkContribs 09:24, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks! So, a company like US Steel would also, at least formerly, be technically considered a combine? 2601:646:8E01:7E0B:9559:4F0F:AF97:BC2A (talk) 09:30, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * In steelmaking, it is a huge integrated steel mill, like Gary Works perhaps. It may include mining facilities lying nearby. Шурбур (talk) 13:23, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * комбинат, or combine (enterprise). —Stephen (talk) 22:55, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

Russian carbide
What is the etymology of the noun (as opposed to the verb) "Pobedit" (Russian trademark for tungsten carbide)? Is it cognate with the word "pobeda" (victory)? If so, does it have any relation to the Russian victory over Germany (maybe it has something to do with the way Russia first obtained this material)? 2601:646:8E01:7E0B:9559:4F0F:AF97:BC2A (talk) 09:29, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * ru:Победит states that the compound had been in use in USSR since 1929, but the name was coined during WW2 when it was used for armor-piercing ammunition. --77.138.205.35 (talk) 10:20, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * The name is known well before WWII, probably since the year the compound had been created. It may be simply an "auspicious" name, or a name commemorating that technological achievement. Шурбур (talk) 12:31, 2 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Off-topic, I can recommend the 1963 East German comedy Carbide and Sorrel about a German's efforts to get barrels of carbide from a supplier to his bombed-out factory post-World War II. Clarityfiend (talk) 10:35, 3 December 2017 (UTC)


 * yes, it's победа + the -ит ending for minerals (-ite in English) 78.53.108.24 (talk) 19:46, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

By the side of the road
Is there anything grammatically wrong with this phrase? Is it preferable to always use "at the side of the road" instead? I've raised a question about this at User talk:2605:E000:9143:7000:54EA:48B9:FB1:CE55 and am awaiting a response. Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:07, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I direct you to a house and a poem called "House by the Side of the Road". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:26, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * How very quaint. I must try and visit. But the poem is nowhere to be seen there? Does it solve the grammatical riddle in some way? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:29, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Here's one of many links to the poem itself. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:02, 2 December 2017 (UTC)


 * The IP's command of English is obviously poor, as he's misinterpreting the use of "by" in those sentences. If it continues, take him to WP:ANI and ask that he be blocked for disruption. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:28, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Or be given a poem to read, perhaps? But the IP's edits are not wrong as such, are they? I'm not sure I can be bothered reverting them all. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:31, 2 December 2017 (UTC) ... but I see someone else can...
 * The IP's reason for the edits is wrong. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:45, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Not sure they have coherently given one. The edit summaries are a little hard to follow. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:46, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * They're trying to claim that "by" is short for "constructed by". It's either incompetence or deliberate trolling. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:55, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm sure they'll learn! Martinevans123 (talk) 14:58, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Meanwhile, needs to be watched. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:56, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * The behavior, whether intentional trolling or simple incompetence, is entirely disruptive. The edits should be reverted, and the ones I have checked had been.  I thought this sort of shit was what we had admins with tools to correct. μηδείς (talk) 20:24, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * 'Sno biggie. I was bemused more than anything. Trying to place that IP's non-English language region (but frustratingly geolocates to California, so I guess drugs are probably to blame). Martinevans123 (talk) 20:31, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I've been speaking and listening to British English for 70 odd years and for me the two phrases "by the side of the road" and "at the side of the road" are interchangeable with no special preference given to either. Personal preference usually dictates which is used. Pure OR but you can consider or ignore. Richard Avery (talk) 08:59, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Agree with Richard. Alansplodge (talk) 11:12, 3 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Of course "by" and "at" are (often interchangeable--but not always: "He lives by the Walmart" ≠ "He lives at the Walmart") synonyms. That's not the issue here.  The issue is that the editor is arguing that "by" has only one meaning, the instrumental case, not the locative case and is searching for all instances he can find and changing them pointedly and on a false assumption.


 * Given the volume of his edits and the obvious inability to assume they are all correct given his ignorance, the changes should be put to a stop. It would be an incredible amount of wasted effort for a competent good-faith English speaking editor to have to check all these instances individually to make sure they don't produce nonsense or change verbatim quotes. μηδείς (talk) 20:46, 3 December 2017 (UTC)


 * They've given up (on that IP address) for now. But given there's been no engagement of any kind, one wonders where they might spring up next. And how one might monitor. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:07, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

"Long dog"
I do not have English as my first language. Can any one tell me what is the meaning of the phrase "going at it like a long dog" and where is it originating? I have also heard "he was eating into that pie like a long dog" or some such. So I am thinking it maybe is something to do with a wolf (Spanish is lobo). Thank you. Linda Mora Torrontes (talk) 16:45, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * See Longdog. That kind of dog is used in dog racing. Those two expressions could relate, implying doing something very quickly and determinedly. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:49, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * That said, I am a native English speaker and have never heard the phrase(s). Could the OP say where/when they heard/saw it?--Phil Holmes (talk) 17:08, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I sorry, was a while ago. But I think was in Balham at The Grove public house. Linda Mora Torrontes (talk) 18:21, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I think Bugs is right. Urban Dictionary reckons going after something like a longdog after a bitch is going after it right away or in a hurry.  I've never heard this expression either, but living on a farm in the middle of West Sussex I can hardly claim to be an authority on speaking Urban. --Antiquary (talk) 18:43, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * This line from a Wilbur Smith novel seems to confirm it: "You took off like a long dog after a bitch – fantastic turn of speed." --Antiquary (talk) 19:15, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * The term is not very common in general British English, but has been used since 1634 for a fast dog. The OED says: "a greyhound, lurcher, or dog of a similar breed; (in later use) spec. (in form longdog) a dog cross-bred from two dogs of this type, of which one is typically a greyhound.".   D b f i r s   09:09, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

German mitrechnen
How would you translate "Bei diesem Händler müssen Sie besonders gut mitrechnen"? (Maybe: "With this trader you need to count too very carefully"?)--Herfrid (talk) 22:57, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * If you replaced "too" with "along" it might work better, but once again, dear Herfrid, you've stumped me for a good colloquial, smooth and simple translation conveying the right meaning, but for native English speakers who maybe aren't sure what is meant: Here, Duden's first meaning is how "mitrechnen" is being used: " [um das Ergebnis zu kontrollieren gleichzeitig mit einem anderen eine Rechnung ausführen]", i.e. "to execute calculations simultaneously with another person [in order to check/audit/supervise the result] ". ---Sluzzelin talk  00:42, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
 * What exactly does "trader" mean here? Does it mean a retail merchant / shop owner? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:21, 3 December 2017 (UTC)


 * I'd go with something like "You really need to check this guy's arithmetic." --69.159.60.147 (talk) 05:15, 3 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Well just change "guy" for Händler to the more appropriate merchant, shopkeeper, or seller, or whatever noun is appropriate for the larger context, which the OP does not specify.  E.g., "You really need to check this merchant's math carefully." μηδείς (talk) 17:22, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you everyone for your proposals! I guess I like yours best...--Herfrid (talk) 18:11, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I think Medeis suggestion is good, but we are missing some context - this may suggest that the merchant is prone to cheat on the math, or unable to do the math correctly, or, nowadays more likely, to have a complex price structure (as with Ryanair - the ticket is only 99ct, but if you want a seat, that's an extra EUR 25, and the mandatory seatbelt goes for EUR 15...). --Stephan Schulz (talk) 21:49, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for asking! To answer your question: The context was indeed supposed to be about a seller seeming to want to cheat one. Best wishes--Herfrid (talk) 19:49, 6 December 2017 (UTC)