Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2017 February 9

= February 9 =

why is Greece not named Hellas in English?
why the English language uses Greece and not Hellas for the country considering that the native name of the country is Hellas? ΕΛ ΕΛ (talk) 00:00, 9 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia has an article named Name of Greece which delves into the etymology of the English name. Note that Greece and the English language are not unique in this regard.  The names for nations vary from language to language, and they are not always related to the native name for that nation.  If you wish to read more about these naming patterns, Wikipedia has an article titled Exonym and endonym which discusses exactly this issue.  -- Jayron 32 00:07, 9 February 2017 (UTC)


 * The Greece variations are moderate compared to the Names of Germany... AnonMoos (talk) 00:31, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

See Elaan of Troyius. μηδείς (talk) 04:03, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

From the Greek Hellenikos, English has the adjective Hellenic pertaining to Greece. In modern use in the arts, Hellenic is used of Greek work from the close of the primitive phase to the time of Alexander the Great or the Roman conquest (succeeded by the Hellenistic). Blooteuth (talk) 00:58, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

The origins of "Greek" and "Greece" are somewhat convoluted, but the short answer is that it's from the Latin term for the inhabitants. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 11:09, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

de question is...
Should "de Fleury" be split off from Fleury (name)? Clarityfiend (talk) 03:44, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Are there any other "de _____ (name)" pages in Wikipedia? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 04:27, 9 February 2017 (UTC)


 * There are so many. There are French surnames that begin with de, Spanish surnames, Dutch surnames, and surnames in various other Romance languages. —Stephen (talk) 05:30, 9 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Hah. Didn't think to look there. Thanks. Clarityfiend (talk) 07:18, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

PRC's "Outstanding Domestic Animated Series" this (or past) quarter
I'm trying to give a description about the State Administration of Press, Publication, Radio, Film and Television's "Outstanding Domestic Animated Television Series" (优秀国产电视动画片) based on the following sentence from this source: "这些作品坚持正确价值导向，具有较高艺术水准和制作水平，请各级广播影视行政管理部门立即向所辖各级电视台传达，全国各级电视台特别是上星综合频道、动画少儿上星频道、地面少儿频道可予以优先安排播出." I won't rely on machine translator on this matter, as I want the translation to be very accurate. Someone with high fluency in Chinese that doesn't need machine translator to understand, please help. --58.123.222.52 (talk) 09:48, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
 * "These works persist with correct value guidance, and possess relatively high artistic quality and production standards. We request that broadcasting and film and television administrative organs at all levels immediately relay to television stations at all levels within their jurisdictions, that television stations at all levels nationally, especially satellite-broadcast comprehensive channels, animated children's satellite-broadcast channels and terrestrial children's channels, may give broadcasting priority to these works." --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 13:33, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I was actually editing an article about Rainbow Ruby (彩虹宝宝; a multinational television co-production which involves a company in the PRC), and now I get the idea.
 * But then, there's something that strikes me: who picks such works? Well, this sentence seems to give me the answer:
 * "为促进国产电视动画片精品创作生产，充分发挥优秀国产电视动画片的示范带动作用，经省级广播电视行政部门、中央电视台初选，国家新闻出版广电总局邀请相关播出机构、专家和观众代表进行审看终选，..."
 * I can recognise CCTV (中央电视台), but what are the others?
 * Anyway, I think, when you have time, you can add 'what is the PRC's central government doing with animation industry' in the Chinese animation article, including (but not limited to) the incentive above. --58.123.222.52 (talk) 08:59, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
 * The part you quoted says "To promote the production and creation of elite works of domestic television animations, and to fully utilise the exemplar driving effect of excellent domestic television animations, after initial selection by province-level broadcasting and television administrative organs and China Central Television, and viewing and final selection by relevant broadcasting organisations, experts and audience representatives at the invitation of the State Administration of Press, Publication, Radio, Film and Television..." I didn't use a machine translator, but I have tried to be precise with the translation to give you an idea of the awkward bureauspeak employed by the original text. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 10:36, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you again. If there's something to ask you, I'll leave a message at your talk page. --58.123.222.52 (talk) 17:44, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

Br English "ageing"
In US English the silent "e" is dropped to form "aging". In Br English it seems to be retained. So, is this true of all words that end with a silent "e" ? How about other forms of English ? StuRat (talk) 17:42, 9 February 2017 (UTC)


 * According to wiktionary, which shows both British and US forms, we have only "racing" and "toting"; we have both "bingeing" and (to my surprise) "binging"; and we have only "singeing" (obviously to avoid confusion with the present participle of "sing"). It appears to me that the "e" is only retained in present participles in British or US English when preceded by "g". US Eng does it sometimes and not always, as evidenced by "aging" and "singeing"; the question remains as to whether British English always retains "e" after "g". Loraof (talk) 18:18, 9 February 2017 (UTC)


 * American and British English spelling differences --217.140.96.140 (talk) 18:18, 9 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Thanks. So no hard and fast rule I can use.  Too bad. StuRat (talk) 18:40, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Both Oxford and Collins dictionaries allow either spelling (or, if you prefer, both spellings) in British English. There are very few hard and fast rules in English orthography. That would take all the fun out of it.--Shantavira|feed me 09:48, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Although the Oxford English Dictionary (Third Edition) allows "aging" as a secondary spelling, nearly all of the citations use the spelling "ageing". The exceptions (using "aging") are for noun and adjective, and are mainly from American publications or foreign authors, though there are just a few from British sources, mainly from the mid-1800s.  British English does not retain the "e" to soften the "g" in other words such as "paging" and  "gauging", but it does in "whingeing" and "swingeing" in addition to the words mentioned above. In "queueing" the "e" before "ing" seems to be optional.   D b f i r s   12:50, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Etymology Online says "aging - also ageing". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:53, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
 * ... as would be expected on an American website.  D b f i r s   15:42, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
 * ...which has many British sources, including the OED. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:49, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Of course it does. It's an excellent resource, summarising the information in the OED and Merriam-Webster etc.    D b f i r s   15:57, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
 * You could try changing the language to "British English" on your word processing software and it will tell you if you get it wrong. Alansplodge (talk) 09:51, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
 * An easier method may be to just use the spelling in a Wikipedia article. Someone will be along soon to tell you if you get it wrong. -- Jayron 32 14:11, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Is that a joke, Alan? Or do you actually think the writers of a word processor are a better resource than the OED, as quoted above? HenryFlower 15:44, 11 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Not a joke, but intended as an easy workaround to save looking-up each word individually to see if there's a difference between British and US spelling (the OP was looking for a "hard and fast rule I can use"). I've never seen an actual mistake in MS Word spelling, but admittedly there are plenty of words missing. I have some sympathy with StuRat, since I've just been writing an article about an American rocket scientist, which the rules say has to be written in US English. I think I've made a reasonable fist of it, but I'll be blowed if I'm going to check each word in a copy of Merriam-Webster, even if I possessed such a thing. Alansplodge (talk) 15:47, 12 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree with your comment about spellcheckers, I might have made such a suggestion and I would do that workaround myself; but let me just add my small notice. You do not need to check every word. By my rough estimation, from a 100,000 wordlist of widespread well-known words (actually, those that are in the M-W Collegiate) there are only 500 base words which are spelled differently in both the varieties, plus 500 verbs in -ize (though their number potentially is unlimited, but 500 are widespread). To that number add 500 derivatives to each, totally 2000 words (2%). But practically one needs to remember just 500 words of the first group. Moreover, the first group is further divided into subgroups (-our/-or, -re/-er, etc.) which simplifies the remembering. If one does not want to remember, one can just make up a list and check against it if needed (there exist several lists in the internet). Though, by my opinion, spelling is the easiest task, the main problem is not the different spelling of 2000 odd words, but other differences, mainly vocabulary, and also minute differences in grammar and usage, the latter are much more difficult to tackle even by native speakers. P.S. You do not need to have your own M-W Collegiate, it is freely available at their official site.--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 18:17, 15 February 2017 (UTC)