Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2017 July 31

= July 31 =

Figures
Which definition matches the meaning in this context?


 * "Figures."

I can't find a definition in my Merriam-Webster dictionary that matches the intended meaning. I often hear this as a comment to something. Not sure what it means. I just know that some primates use them. 140.254.70.33 (talk) 14:04, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
 * It's short for "it figures" or "that figures", meaning "that makes sense". "Figures" is used here as a verb. --Viennese Waltz 14:16, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
 * See here for a discussion of the phrase "go figure" (which is one variant) and here for some definitions of the word "figures." as a slang term meaning same. -- Jayron 32 14:19, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
 * "Go figure" and "figures" do not mean the same thing at all. In fact, they pretty much mean the opposite to one another. As I wrote above, "figures" means "that makes sense", while "go figure" means "that makes no sense". --Viennese Waltz 14:22, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
 * "That figures" can also be used sarcastically as a near-synonym of "Go figure". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:16, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I've almost never heard "figures" not used sarcastically. -- Jayron 32 16:32, 31 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Here's a clip where "That figures" is used a couple of times. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:21, 31 July 2017 (UTC)


 * It's often used pretty cynically. The sub-text is often "That makes sense, I knew there had to be a bad side to this."
 * example: "Wow, this phone is cheap!" "Only if you sign a really expensive contract."  "Figures." ApLundell (talk) 15:04, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

"Who was it done by?" VS. "By whom was it done?"
I would like to use the passive voice. Which sentence, of the two indicated in the title, is better in Spoken English? 185.46.76.17 (talk) 15:42, 31 July 2017 (UTC)


 * The 2nd is technically correct, but sounds rather formal (and "whom" should not be capitalized). I'd use the first form (actually, I'd use the active voice and say "Who did it ?"). StuRat (talk) 16:01, 31 July 2017 (UTC)


 * StuRat -- "By whom" is only "technically correct" if you regard preposition stranding as a bad thing. Most criticisms of it have been based on judging English by standards suitable to other languages, and I think an indiscriminate condemnation of all preposition stranding is pretty old-fashioned nowadays... AnonMoos (talk) 13:32, 1 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Agreed. That is why I said "technically correct, but sounds rather formal". StuRat (talk) 21:08, 1 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Spoken English: "Who did it?". If you really need another form, then "Who was it done by?". I don't know anyone (BrEn) who would say "By whom was it done?". Bazza (talk) 16:12, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't think I'd say it unless I was being deliberately formal, but I'd write it in any formal communication.   D b f i r s   16:20, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
 * "It was done by whom?" works fine for passive voice. Whom (which is an object pronoun like him and her and me and us) tends to (for reasons which are still unknown to me) confuse the shit out of most people, so many people try to avoid it whenever possible; "Who did it" tends to be the form used for that reason.  I'm not sure why one would want to force passive voice here, but if one were trying to do that both "By whom was it done?" and "It was done by whom?" would work.  Passive voice requires the impetus of the action to be the object of the sentence, which would all but require the object form, which is "whom".  Consider the forms "It was done by him" (passive) or "It was done by us" (passive) or "It was done by them" (passive).  If the declarative sentence uses him/us/them, then the question just replaces that word with "Whom".  It's that simple.  -- Jayron 32 16:31, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, you can't just freely change to .  They have the same overt meaning but quite different emphasis.  I would use the second version if, for example, someone had named as the doer someone that shocked me, or maybe if I wanted to get a repetition of something I had heard but not quite registered.
 * On the point about "whom" confusing people &mdash; my sister teaches high-school English, and reports that her students are very surprised when she tells them that "whom is not just the fancy version of who". --Trovatore (talk) 20:57, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I never stated you could freely change those. Not even once.  Not sure who you are disagreeing with.  -- Jayron 32 12:25, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree; you did not say they could be freely exchanged. In context, however, I took your statement as suggesting  as a potential solution to the original poster's query.  I apologize if I misunderstood. --Trovatore (talk) 05:39, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
 * It was, since the OP did not specify beyond "passive voice". There are other considerations, which the OP did not specific regarding nuance of meaning, and there are multiple ways to use the passive voice.  The OP can choose which solution works best for them if presented with a variety of different options.  -- Jayron 32 14:48, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Jayron32, Trovatore: "It was done by whom?" is what linguists call an "echo question" (usually having a different function than an ordinary question). There doesn't seem to be much about it on Wikipedia... AnonMoos (talk) 13:39, 1 August 2017 (UTC)


 * "Who did it?" is by far the best - active voice vs. passive voice, and totally clear. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:31, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Of course the active voice is simpler, but as I said I would like to use the passive voice (for some reason itrelevant to this discussion). 185.46.76.17 (talk) 17:15, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
 * If you're going to insist on passive voice, go with "Who was it done by?" ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:18, 31 July 2017 (UTC)


 * -One word: Whodunit — 2606:A000:4C0C:E200:E14F:DD6F:CFA5:F319 (talk) 20:42, 31 July 2017 (UTC)


 * I can imagine the passive cropping up in a parallel construction such as: "Well, we know what was done, but we do not know by whom it was done". Even there, it would be fine to abandon parallelism and the passive for the second part and say "... but we don't know who did it".  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  22:58, 31 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Tersest: "Whodunit?" Clarityfiend (talk) 00:48, 1 August 2017 (UTC)