Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2017 June 12

= June 12 =

antonyms of "return"
looking for antonyms of "return"68.151.25.115 (talk) 04:51, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
 * "Recede"? Akld guy (talk) 05:31, 12 June 2017 (UTC)


 * keep, take, stay, leave, remove, deprive, hold, withhold. —Stephen (talk) 05:51, 12 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Negative return. InedibleHulk (talk) 09:55, 12 June 2017 (UTC)


 * thesaurus.com is your friend. --jpgordon&#x1d122;&#x1d106; &#x1D110;&#x1d107; 13:42, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Your pal and your buddy. Clarityfiend (talk) 22:51, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
 * "How long ... 'til the point ... of no return ?" .... "According to the receipt, 30 days." StuRat (talk) 14:46, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
 * It would help if we had some indication of which meaning of return you have in mind. Also possible for the verb: send (out/away) (transitive) or depart (intransitive). For the adjectival sense as in return ticket, the antonym would be one-way.—Odysseus 1 4 7  9  02:17, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
 * ding, ding, ding!!! yes, the sense is travel!  departure : arrival :: egress : ingress :: WHAT IS THIS WORD : return.68.151.25.115 (talk) 04:59, 16 June 2017 (UTC)


 * are "departure" and "arrival" perfect antonyms? i only learned this from airport sign(age).68.151.25.115 (talk) 05:32, 16 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Planely, they are. :-) StuRat (talk) 22:57, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

"If you do he will do", VS. "If you will do he will do"
I know that Americans prefer: "If you will do he will do", to: "If you do he will do".

How about Brits? Do they regard: "If you will do he will do", as illegitimate? Less legitimate? Legitimate? 185.46.77.61 (talk) 09:03, 12 June 2017 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't use either of those - it sounds clunky with the same phrase being repeated. I would say "If you do it, so will he" or "If you will do it, so will he." I feel there is a slight difference in meaning between the two versions - the first suggests that I am encouraging him to do something now, while the second seems to refer to some future action being contemplated. Interestingly, putting the complete phrase "If you will do he will do" into Google throws up exactly one use - this question (and the alternative only produces four). I am unconvinced that the Americans make much use of either. Wymspen (talk) 10:55, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I think the question was about sentences like the following: "If you will help him, he will be able to achieve." or "If we will listen, we will find out useful information." As a British English speaker, I don't find these to be very natural. I prefer the versions without the first "will", but they could be recast as "if you are willing to help him, he will be able to achieve" and "if we are willing to listen, we will find out useful information". I too would be interested to know how acceptable the sentence are in US English. Itsmejudith (talk) 11:07, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you. 185.46.77.61 (talk) 11:16, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
 * 1. The "he will do" part, is not that important in my question. I'm asking about the legitimacy of the "If you will do" part, in British English (I'd added the "he will do" part, to make sure that you don't interpret the "if " as "whether ", because I already know that Brits regard "whether you will do" as legitimate, and so do they with "if you will do" when "if " means "whether ").
 * 2. You forgot to add, that putting your complete phrase "If you will do it so will he" into Google throws up no results. 185.46.77.61 (talk) 11:16, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Our articles are English_conditional_sentences and especially English_conditional_sentences, which pretty much cover it. HenryFlower 12:04, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
 * As a speaker of American English, I disagree with the OP's assertion that Americans prefer to include "will" in the if-clause. I would omit it. Loraof (talk) 13:57, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
 * As a native American English speaker, I agree with Loraof. The sentence "If you will help him, he will be able to achieve." sounds odd and stilted to me.  I would omit the first "will", or replace it with "would".  CodeTalker (talk) 23:12, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I think in general "if + " is of very limited use in American English. The only cases I can think of are for future events that are known in the present:  Check the weather forecast. If it's going to rain tomorrow, then let's make sure to pack our raincoats.  And even in that case, I want to say that the "going to" future is basically required and the "will" future is essentially forbidden. --Trovatore (talk) 01:03, 13 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Agreed. It's "If you build it, he will come," not "If you will build it, he will come." Matt Deres (talk) 16:24, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

Thank you all. I think my mistake was my confusing "will" with "would". Americans can say "if I would" while Brits cannot (or rather don't tend to say that - unless "if" means "whether"), so I thought Americans could also say "If I will" (Actually they don't tend to say that - unless "if" means "whether"). 185.46.77.61 (talk) 07:19, 13 June 2017 (UTC)


 * As in "If I would bring the pizza, you could bring the beer"? I'd omit would. —Tamfang (talk) 07:02, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Agreed. And I would reverse the order of "you" and "could" for a question. "If I bring the pizza, could you bring the beer?" or "I will bring the pizza; you bring the beer." I guess I've used "If I will bring the pizza...", but it sounds a bit stilted to me. Still cromulent, though. Matt Deres (talk) 12:40, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
 * No. As in "If I would have been more careful, I wouldn't have been injured". "If I would be rich, I would donate more". The Brits don't speak that way. 185.46.77.61 (talk) 16:45, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure anybody does. :) The first one's not so bad (I think most people would just say "If I had been..."), but I don't think your second example works. "If I was rich..." Matt Deres (talk) 23:06, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
 * How about "If you would leave now, you would be on time " ? 185.46.77.61 (talk) 18:45, 17 June 2017 (UTC)