Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2017 May 16

= May 16 =

Ah (阿)
What is the English linguistic terminology for the Chinese naming prefix Ah (阿)?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 01:13, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
 * According to Chinese name it is a signifier of a nickname. I don't know that there is an English equivalent, maybe diminutive?  -- Jayron 32 01:24, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Wiktionary says "Used in front of persons' given names or kinship terms to express familiarity (traditionally in rural or southern Chinese dialects)." 阿 gobonobo  + c 02:29, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I am Cantonese so I understand the meaning of the term. I am just surprise there is no official linguistic categorization/terminology for it. Maybe it could be a diminutive, can anybody confirm that?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 08:24, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Is this similar to the Northern British dialect use of "our"; "our Jim" (for a brother, son, or close relative Jim), "our mam",  etc. ? -- Q Chris (talk) 09:04, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't think it really answers the question but there was a similar discussion about this prefix last month. Adam Bishop (talk) 11:35, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
 * It's similar to a diminutive in other languages, the closest analogy I can think of in English is modifying someone's name or form of address with a "-y" sound or "-a" sound, like "daddy", "Jimmy" or "Gazza". --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 12:22, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
 * The question shows up the limitation of seeking classification of every word or particle. I am reminded that in French you can use the definite article with similar effect. "T'as vu la Marie?" could. be translated into English "Did you see our Mary?", or "did you see that Mary one?", depending on the relationship. Languages do weird things especially when you get into dialect and colloquial usage. Itsmejudith (talk) 21:06, 16 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Maybe a Hypocorism? --ColinFine (talk) 09:52, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
 * It's actually one of the examples listed in that article: in Cantonese and related dialects, the addition of a word-final very high tone, or changed tone sometimes in combination with the addition of the prefix A before the name. The A syllable is also used in other dialects originating in southern China as a term of endearment or closeness. -165.234.252.11 (talk) 15:49, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Underdots for cerebrals
I've recently come across a bit of information (pp. 258-259) which attributes the invention of underdots for "cerebrals" in Indic languages to Franz Bopp. I was about to add this information somewhere, when I discovered a slightly different story in Hunterian transliteration where there is no mention of Franz Bopp. Who in fact did invent the underdots? I could have dug myself and looked through every book by the authors mentioned, though I hope someone may already know the answer.--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 18:31, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
 * It may help to know that cerebrals are usually called retroflex consonants in most other contexts. μηδείς (talk) 19:48, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Yet they did not use this term back then, so it's unlikely to find anything with such a keyword.--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 20:44, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

I've found it myself. In 1808 Charles Wilkins published his grammar of Sanskrit, where he explicitly use underdots; Franz Bopp (b. 1791) was only 17 by then. In Bopp's own Sanskrit grammar, published in 1827, he did not used any dots at all; yet he introduced over- and underdots in his famous Comparative Grammar (1833), as well as in his earlier Analytical Comparison (1820), where he directly cited Wilkins. So this misattribution to Bopp may be explained by the popularity of his main work: people who are more familiar with his works than with Wilkins' may think it was Bopp who had invented the dots.--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 20:38, 19 May 2017 (UTC)