Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2017 November 12

= November 12 =

Etymology of the word 'male'
The wiki pages under the heading 'female' include an etymological subsection. Why is this not included in the wiki paages under the heading 'male'?Bromgf (talk) 08:06, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I guess nobody's gotten around to writing it? I see an unresolved request for this info on Talk:Male from a decade ago also. Check wikt:male and for possible info to include. Why not give it a go yourself? DMacks (talk) 08:26, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Why would it be notable? For "female", it's notable because it's interesting that it's not derived from "male".  The reverse does not apply. --69.159.60.147 (talk) 11:18, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
 * This isn't a science question, and unless you're still unclear on something about the etymology it's not even a language question. Please consider moving or removing this section. Wnt (talk) 11:53, 12 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Derived via Old French from the Latin 'masculus' and 'femilla'. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 12:14, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

I have moved this topic from the Science Refdesk. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 12:44, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

The bottom line is that this is a folk etymology, a respelling made in ignorance of the diachronic facts.

Male and female have totally separate etymologies, as BB has alluded to; mās and femina; and fe-male is simply a respellling/reanalysis of the French reflex femelle based on modern naivete. The roots are unrelated, with mās meaning "manly" and dhe- -> fe- meaning "suckle" as in fetus and fellatio. μηδείς (talk) 14:18, 12 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Isn't the French reflex se, the same as or very similar to other Romance languages?  The Oxford English Dictionary says that femelle is a diminutive of femme.   It also says the root *fe- means "to produce offspring".   Its derivation of "fellatio" is as quoted above. 82.13.208.70 (talk) 13:04, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I believe μηδείς is using reflex in the technical sense, referring to a word that is a "known derivative of an earlier form", while you're referring to reflexive pronoun. 2.97.236.64 (talk) 23:12, 13 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Aha! No wonder I couldn't figure out where in the world the Western Romance pronoun was coming from!  Yes. IP 2.97 is correct as to my meaning. μηδείς (talk) 05:41, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

To use sth as sth
Do I need to use an indefinite article for this collocation, e. g. in a phrase like "As a browser, I use..." or can I also leave out the "a" here? If so, would that be an informal thing then?--Herfrid (talk) 17:44, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Are you talking about "browser" as computer software, or are you talking about yourself browsing? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:18, 12 November 2017 (UTC)


 * You certainly cannot omit the article in that expression, whether "browser" means the person or the program. If you want better advice, provide a full sentence in the context of a full paragraph.  Other considerations come into play when the full context is revealed. μηδείς (talk) 21:28, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
 * "I use safari as my browser."
 * "I use safari as a browser."
 * "I use safari as browser."
 * Hmmm, I am not sure, but yes I think a teacher would strike the last one as ungrammatical. --Lgriot (talk) 12:57, 13 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Yes, the third option is ungrammatical on its own. μηδείς (talk) 05:37, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Firstly, to clarify that: I was referring to "browser" as a program! But, in comparison, what about the expression "as employer" for instance?--Herfrid (talk) 15:54, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Articles are often left out of headlines. For a normal sentence, either of your first two examples works, depending on whether you use just one browser or several. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:43, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
 * BB is correct, and there's the added fact that "Safari" is a concrete noun, while "government" is abstract. The title of that book even in headlinese would be "Browsers as Programs", not "Browser as Program". μηδείς (talk) 16:54, 14 November 2017 (UTC)