Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2018 February 23

= February 23 =

"I before e except after c"
There has been correspondence in the London Daily Telegraph over the past week about the application of this rule. It's been pointed out that it only applies when the diphthong is pronounced "ee" (although one woman commented "The rule has always made it difficult for me to remember how to spell my middle name.")  The editor did, of course, print her middle name in full - Sheila.

On Tuesday a correspondent wrote:

"There are, I believe, just six exceptions to the spelling rule ..."

seize, surfeit, forfeit, counterfeit, protein and sheikh.

The fourth example I have only ever seen derived from a compound of the Portuguese verb fazer, "to make", "to do", whose past participle is feito (pronounced fay-too). However, my Chambers' dictionary (or Chambers's dictionary, as it describes itself), derives it from the Old French contrefet. This is the same verb - in modern French its past participle is fait, same as the third person singular, present tense. Chambers derives the second example from the same source - Old French surfait. Who is right here?

I would have added "skein" to the list, but apparently it rhymes with "vein", and also with the only pronunciation I have ever heard of the last word in the list, sheikh. That leads me to believe that the true number of exceptions to the rule is just two, "seize" and "protein". 86.2.21.152 (talk) 19:58, 23 February 2018 (UTC)


 * It's such a non-rule it's hardly worth troubling over, but for a list of exceptions see I before E except after C. - Nunh-huh 20:09, 23 February 2018 (UTC)


 * You can add weird to the list. The rule pretty much works as i before e except after c but with e before i when it sounds like neighbor or weigh, or like stein, and with i before e when the ci sounds like sh as in efficient. Loraof (talk) 21:47, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
 * The exceptions I learnt as a child were summed up as "Sheila Protein seized the weird weir." Wymspen (talk) 00:24, 24 February 2018 (UTC)


 * "Sheikh" has often been pronounced "sheek", as in "Let me tell you 'bout Ahab the A-rab, the sheek of the burnin' sand..." ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:21, 24 February 2018 (UTC)


 * See wikt:Category:English words not following the I before E except after C rule -- Jayron 32 03:24, 24 February 2018 (UTC)


 * As for the etymology of "counterfeit":-
 * Merriam-Webster online says: "Middle English countrefet, from Anglo-French cuntrefeit, from past participle of cuntrefere, contrefaire to imitate, from cuntre- + faire to make".
 * Oxford Dictionaries online says: "Middle English (as a verb): from Anglo-Norman French countrefeter, from Old French contrefait, past participle of contrefaire".
 * Etymology Online says: "late 13c., from Old French contrefait 'imitated' (Modern French contrefait), past participle of contrefaire 'imitate,' from contre- 'against' (see contra-) + faire 'to make, to do' (from Latin facere 'to make, do', from PIE root *dhe- 'to set, put'). Medieval Latin contrafactio meant 'setting in opposition or contrast'".
 * Alansplodge (talk) 11:07, 24 February 2018 (UTC)