Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2018 July 15

= July 15 =

"Like Billio"
What is the origin of this expression, which means "very much" or "in an exaggerated way"? I had heard it was connected with one Joseph Billio a preacher at the United Reformed Church in Market Hill, Maldon, Essex, in about 1696. I believe it is a UK-only expression. Thank you. 86.187.174.86 (talk) 11:17, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, this discounts the Joseph Billio story, but apparently no one really knows the origin of the phrase. Deor (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * (e/c) There's a discussion of this problem at The Phrase Finder, which pours cold water on the Joseph Billio idea on the grounds that the phrase like billy-o isn't known to have appeared in print until 1882, long after JB's death and disappearance into obscurity. They suggest it's a minced oath for like the devil, and so did Eric Partridge.  Collins and Oxford just say "of unknown origin".  The earliest known usage of the phrase, by the way, was in the United States, but I don't know if it's still current there. --Antiquary (talk) 14:21, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * The earliest printed record of the phrase in print is in the US newspaper The Fort Wayne Daily Gazette, March 1882: "He lay on his side for about two hours, roaring like billy-hoo with the pain, as weak as a mouse." There is suggestion that this may be a minced oath. Wymspen (talk) 11:47, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
 * There is no mention of it my copy of Dictionary of American Slang by Wentworth and Flexner (1967), which probably means it wasn't in much use in the US in the first half of the 20th century. That dictionary is over 700 pages of small print, so it is fairly comprehensive, but nothing of that sort is perfect. - Donald Albury 16:46, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Also not present in the Dictionary of American Regional English (though billy-be-damned, mentioned in the Quinion and Phrase Finder pieces linked above, is). Deor (talk) 17:57, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * For that matter the phrase is in the last stages of quaintness here in the UK. It's more remembered than used. --Antiquary (talk) 18:47, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * More remembered than used here in New Zealand too. My father (1919-2001) used it frequently, as in "That taxi was speeding, he was going like Billy-oh". Possibly a late-Victorian expression that he picked up from parents, aunts, uncles. Akld guy (talk) 21:44, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, twenty-three skidoo! --Trovatore (talk) 19:06, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Well that transport use fits in with the locomotive origin? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:51, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * This Australian knows the expression, but hasn't heard it for many years. HiLo48 (talk) 22:31, 15 July 2018 (UTC)


 * There is a claim in the "Legacy" section at Puffing Billy (locomotive), but it's totally unsourced (and so should be either supported or removed?). I see the church itself still clings to the teacher story: A portrait of him hangs in the vestry, apparently, although it hadn't even become a Congregational Church at that time. The church is a Grade II listed building. I can attest that my Auntie Nellie, a staunch Congregationalist all her life, used this phrase frequently, and often at moments of high spirits. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:59, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * About the mention at Puffing Billy (locomotive): I've gone for the referencing option but also toned the claim down a lot. --Antiquary (talk) 19:04, 15 July 2018 (UTC)


 * This middle-aged American knows like billy-o only from Tom Sawyer (I don't remember in which book he says it). —Tamfang (talk) 02:05, 16 July 2018 (UTC)