Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2018 June 17

= June 17 =

twist
I'm not sure what "twist" means in the following context: "Rappers have also emerged from Indonesia and Vietnam, not to mention Taiwan, which has been a focal point since MC HotDog’s streak of regional success throughout the 2000s. Whether or not the East Asian twist on hip-hop and R&B will turn into a global phenomenon remains to be seen. This week, music fans at SXSW can catch some of the artists trying to make it happen." Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.128.179.200 (talk) 08:35, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 * "Variation" would be one synonym in this context. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.125.75.224 (talk) 09:21, 17 June 2018 (UTC)


 * In my culture I think it would equate to "slant", i.e. "...the East Asian slant on hip-hop and R&B". HiLo48 (talk) 10:06, 17 June 2018 (UTC)


 * "East Asian slant..." seems a particularly insensitive usage of language by whatever culture. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 14:02, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Nonsense. Take your PC male cow manure somewhere else. HiLo48 (talk) 21:15, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
 * No, you're the one talking nonsense. What you derisively call PC is simply the polite avoidance of words that might give offence. If there are other, un-loaded words available that mean the same thing – in this case twist, take or whatever – there's really no excuse for picking the culturally problematic term. --Viennese Waltz 15:46, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
 * It seems the matter isn't as crystal clear as Viennese Waltz seems to imply. There are perhaps two layers of uncertainty, the possibility that an apparently offensive term will cause offense to any given individual in the ostensibly affected group and the possibility that any given term will be perceived as falling within the sphere of offensiveness. While there's admittedly a strong argument that "slant" in the context above could be viewed as offensive, the mere suggestion or remote association of a particular term in a given context with some allegedly offensive usage will not automatically make the term or usage reprehensible. Perhaps more importantly, one might imagine that there is some degree of self-restraint or objectivity among any reasonable audience -- "fighting words" might justify a hair-trigger, knee-jerk reaction, but if there's a plausible argument that a term does mean what it seems to mean (i.e., variation), it can promote a slippery slope to thought police to instantly forbid all usage of the term. --216.15.48.37 (talk) 04:18, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
 * This is ridiculous. Does the editor complaining use "slant" to offend east Asians? I don't. I use it to refer to a twist on language. It's the word I use. There is absolutely no offence involved. When it comes to the word "Asian", I saw it come into the language to replace all the pejorative terms for people with "slanty eyes" after the Vietnam war. In fact, that's effectively what Asian means. Don't talk to me about ancestry. Almost nobody know the ancestry of people they describe as Asian. It's a sloppy replacement for an insult. I see it pretty much still as an insult. HiLo48 (talk) 07:28, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
 * The better term, as noted by 2.125, is "variation". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:17, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, "variation" or "version of". Akld guy (talk) 20:18, 17 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Or, just "twist", which is widely understood by native speakers. In Wiktionary, it's the 19th sense, with a likely intentional nod to the 10th sense, given the musical subject matter. Matt Deres (talk) 00:42, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Widely understood? Not among the native speakers I know. HiLo48 (talk) 21:16, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Being a native speaker of English is not a requirement for reading the English Wikipedia. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:10, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Says the person who argued for the exclusion of non-English language sources because it "restricts the checking that can be done". --Viennese Waltz 07:35, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Different debate. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:03, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

I'm even wondering if twist is a play on words involving the dance The Twist ? Because that was the first thing I thought.Hotclaws (talk) 13:11, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
 * That would be a stretch. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:34, 20 June 2018 (UTC)


 * In music, it is very common to use the word "take" as in The Black Crowes take on Otis Redding's "Hard to Handle." That crosses the pond. I've seen plenty of "takes" on music in England as well as in America. 209.149.113.5 (talk) 15:34, 20 June 2018 (UTC)


 * , Bus stop (talk) 07:10, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

Kun readings for Korean place names
In our article about Japanese exonyms, it says that Japanese can refer to Korean place names using kun readings of their hanja. I wasn't aware of such a thing as I've invariably encountered on readings only. Am I wrong? Can someone point to some examples (I wasn't able to find any real occurrence of Incheon - Nigawa, the example reported in the article)? Thanks! --79.26.127.82 (talk) 08:43, 17 June 2018 (UTC)