Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2018 June 9

= June 9 =

Demonym
If Bulgaria -> Bulgarian and China -> Chinese, then Botswana -> ?. I want to upload the sheet music version of the anthem of Botswana like this name, but I am confused about it.

Update : According to this article, it should be Motswana. Is that correct? It feels kind of weird.

Update : I upload the file with the name Botswana, to avoid confusion. --Jeromi Mikhael (talk) 06:08, 9 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Motswana would be a person from Botswana, but the general adjective would be "Botswanan"... AnonMoos (talk) 09:53, 9 June 2018 (UTC)


 * As stated in List of adjectival and demonymic forms for countries and nations. - Donald Albury 11:43, 9 June 2018 (UTC)


 * In Setswana (the languague) the plural/mass demonym is Batswana, the singular demonym is Motswana. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 13:39, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

The People have spoken, the bastards
This observation was made in 1966 by Dick Tuck (who died last month) on learning that he had lost the election for the California Senate. The remark is believed to have been made originally by Mark Twain. (Tuck went on to publish a news-letter entitled Reliable Source). The phrase entered circulation, and was much used by the British press after the 2016 Brexit referendum. I never heard it before today. Which newspapers did it appear in? 84.93.103.50 (talk) 17:36, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Not Brexit, but Stephen Pound used the phrase in 2003 on the BBC’s Today Programme after promising to sponsor a new law which the listeners voted for; they plumped for allowing householders to use "any means" to defend their property, somewhat against Pound's liberal principles.
 * In respect of Brexit, I only found the phrase in this June 2017 article in The New European "a British pro-EU weekly newspaper". Alansplodge (talk) 16:27, 10 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Not directly relevant, but when Ed Koch was voted out of office in 1989 and was asked he'd run again in the future, he said: "The people have spoken ... and they must be punished." --76.69.118.94 (talk) 06:01, 11 June 2018 (UTC)


 * The highest-profile writer on the Daily Telegraph is, surprisingly, a Remainer . 86.131.233.241 (talk) 18:54, 12 June 2018 (UTC)


 * The paper is still making use of the quote.  The front page cartoon yesterday, ahead of the crucial Commons votes, shows one MP asking another:
 *  'Remind me.  Are the Leavers still the bastards, or is it now the Remainers?'   — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.132.186.246 (talk) 19:01, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

Š-L-M in Latin
Was Š-L-M (->Shalom, salaam, etc) ever borrowed into classical Latin? (In Church Latin, I only see Pax.) If not, how was Shalom and names derived from it latinised in the Vulgate? (I see Solomon is simply Salomon.) And if not that, how would a reasonable person latinise it, just for fun? What would it be grammar-wise?

Secondary question: What's the deal with the letter p with a crossbar in this mss? antiquities / herod / salome (In this latin translation of Antiquities, Salome seems to be simply Saloma.) Temerarius (talk) 19:04, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Re secondary question: The p with a stroke through the descender is an abbreviation of per or per-. For example, ᵱtinent in the MS you linked (left column, line 5) is pertinent. Deor (talk) 21:53, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Confer the name Absalom, which does appear in the Vulgate. Шурбур (talk) 08:00, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
 * And Salome, and Jerusalem...Jerusalem gets transliterated various ways (Jerosolim, Hierosolem, any combination of vowels can probably go in there). The Latin forms are all Latinized Greek though, really. The names were all Hellenized first. Typically Hebrew, Aramaic, and later also Arabic names were not given full Latin (or Greek) declensions if they couldn't easily fit into the system. So for example, Jerusalem (or Hierosolim, etc) always ends with an M and its grammatical case is determined by context. "Jesus" is sort of turned into a defective 4th-declension noun with accusative "Jesum" but all the cases are just "Jesu". Mary on the other hand gets a full set of declensions since "Maria" easily fits the pattern for 1st-declension nouns. Adam Bishop (talk) 10:49, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Translation for "bei jdm landen"
For example with reference to a telephone menu: "Wenn Sie die Eins drücken, landen Sie wieder bei mir." – How would you say that in English?--Neufund (talk) 19:59, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Possibly "bei jemandem landen" (lit: "land with someone") as in "connect with a person" (?) —2606:A000:1126:4CA:0:98F2:CFF6:1782 (talk) 21:46, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeah, he's not asking what "jemandem" means. He deliberately used the abbreviation in the thread header. He's only asking about the "landen" part. --Viennese Waltz 21:55, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Oic -- "land on" (chiefly Brit, I guess) in relation to telephony would mean "connect to" -- loosely translated, Wenn Sie die Eins drücken, landen Sie wieder bei mir: "Press 1 to reconnect" or possibly "...to replay this message". (context might matter) —2606:A000:1126:4CA:0:98F2:CFF6:1782 (talk) 22:07, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
 * "Press 1 to return to this message" (and presumably to hear the options again; I expect the phrase the OP wants translated comes at the end of a menu of different options.) --Xuxl (talk) 14:54, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
 * In Britain I've only heard this expressed one way - e.g.


 * To give a meter reading, press 1
 * To pay a bill, press 2
 * To speak to an adviser or for all other enquiries, press 3
 * To hear these options again, press 4 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7F:BE08:2100:D8E2:5130:CE1:BD4B (talk) 16:10, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

It means to end up at some place or with someone. --Terfili (talk) 04:35, 11 June 2018 (UTC)


 * "Wenn Sie die Eins drücken, landen Sie wieder bei mir." = "By dialing the one, You return here." or "By pressing the one, You get return to me."
 * "bei jdm landen" ("bei jemand(em) landen") = "to end up with someone" or "to meet someone (You usually would not reach)" -- Hans Haase (有问题吗) 15:18, 11 June 2018 (UTC)