Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2018 March 30

= March 30 =

Translation request
Hello. I'd like to request a translation of the following passages from Stéphane Mallarmé.

1. "La chair est triste, hélas ! et j'ai lu tous les livres. Fuir ! là-bas fuir!"

2. "Je dis: une fleur! et, hors de l'oubli où ma voix relègue aucun contour, en tant que quelque chose d'autre que les calice sus, musicalement se lève, idée même et suave, l'absente de tous bouquets."

(I'm aware I could try an automatic translation, but I'm asking here as computerized translations tend to produce lousy results. This request should be taken as compliment to my fellow editors).

FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 03:40, 30 March 2018 (UTC)


 * I'll make a stab at 1. if only to provoke better attempts by others:
 * "The food is poor, alas! – and I've read all the books. To escape! – to escape down there."
 * The above is fairly literal; this being Mallarmé, there may be punning hints at parallel meanings which I'm incapable of recognising. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.218.14.51 (talk) 08:31, 30 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Le Google shows
 * 1. The flesh is sad, alas! – and I’ve read all the books has strong consensus. Then Flee! There flee! or O to escape — to get away! or Let’s go! Far off. Let’s go! Abductive  (reasoning) 08:38, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
 * 2. Scholarly translation from the Poetry Foundation: I say: a flower! and, out of the oblivion into which my voice consigns any real shape, as something other than petals known to man, there rises, harmoniously and gently, the ideal flower itself, the one that is absent from all earthly bouquets Abductive  (reasoning) 08:59, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Likewise from Google a translation of 2: "'I say: a flower! And, beyond the oblivion to which my voice banishes no contour, as something other than the familiar calyces, arises musically the fragrant idea itself, the absent flower of all bouquets", or alternatively, "I say: a flower! and, out of the oblivion into which my voice consigns any real shape, as something other than petals known to man, there rises, harmoniously and gently, the ideal flower itself, the one that is absent from all earthly bouquets". --Antiquary (talk) 09:00, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I rather like the first one, with calyces and absent flowers. Abductive  (reasoning) 09:03, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
 * And sorry for repeating you. An edit conflict gone wrong. --Antiquary (talk) 09:05, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

2.218.14.51 -- The word "chair" does not commonly or ordinarily mean "food". It can sometimes refer to certain types of meat, but in this context seems more likely to be part of a philosophical opposition between Flesh and Spirit... AnonMoos (talk) 09:44, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Sounds plausible: I knew that flesh/meat was the primary meaning, guessed a parallel with the older meaning of English "meat" being "food", and was influenced by the idiom un triste repas (a poor meal). In what sense, though is this flesh "triste" (17 meanings listed in my Cassell's) and what is the context suggestive of a flesh–spirit opposition? I visualised 1. as being the complaint of a bored man faced with bad cooking, wanting a holiday "down there" in the South of France. Rather prosaic, admittedly. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.218.14.51 (talk) 14:51, 30 March 2018 (UTC)


 * A very loose translation of the first one might be, "Oh dear, my body is suffering, and I have run out of books to read. I wish I could run away from this." It doesn't appear to have anything to do with food. Wymspen (talk) 17:28, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I always thought of "La chair" as in "Les plaisirs de la chair" which is a French euphemism for sex. seems to agree (" l’insignifiance des relations conjugales"). I am not sure what a good poetic translation for "Sex is boring" would be in English though.--Lgriot (talk) 14:58, 4 April 2018 (UTC)