Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2018 May 31

= May 31 =

What is the meaning of "soy"?
I've read many memes making fun of the Star Wars Solo movie, calling it "Soy Wars" or "Soy-lo". I have no clue what it means. Thanks!Ericdec85 (talk) 08:55, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * There are indications that it's something to do with one of Alex Jones' conspiracy theories. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 10:29, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * "Soy boy" is an insult aimed at men perceived as lacking masculinity (see Know Your Meme). There is a vociferous online element of fandom that sees the new Star Wars movies as lacking that rugged John Wayne quality that the protagonist of the original films, Luke Skywalker, embodied so powerfully (that's sarcasm, in case you didn't notice). --Nicknack009 (talk) 12:10, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Ah yes, I see that "The term is based on the presence of phytoestrogens contained within soybeans, which have led some to conclude that soy products feminize men who consume them." Wow, hoo noo. Martine Soyvans123 (talk) 12:22, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * So associating it with Alex Jones (the drift I got from Google) is not quite on the mark, he just picked up on it from elsewhere. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:32, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Well that source does say "pejorative which is often used in right-wing online communities". But I'll hear nothing unsavoury said about Ammanford's finest. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:40, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Soytenly not! Your Alex is a gem. I speak of Alex Jones (conspiracy theorist presenter). ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:51, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * It should be noted that Soy-lent green is people. Apologies but I couldn't resist. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 00:17, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Inordinately
Wiktionary tells me:
 * ordinate (adj.) means "arranged regularly in rows; orderly; disposed or arranged in an orderly or regular fashion", and
 * inordinate (adj.) means "excessive; unreasonable or inappropriate in magnitude; extreme".

(Their adverbs have corresponding meanings.) These are clearly not opposites, despite appearances, which is curious in itself.

The 3rd meaning of inordinate, "extreme", permits a positive context ("You are inordinately beautiful"), yet I've never heard the word used this way. It's always used to intensify something negative ("He was inordinately late with his submission").

The word "extraordinarily" might be used here, but maybe "inordinately late" is intended to denote something even worse than merely "extraordinarily late". Would that be the correct interpretation?--  Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  22:07, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * The original concept of "inordinate" was the opposite of ordinate, i.e. it meant not ordered or orderly. Its usage has kind of stretched over time. Given the meaning of "ordinary", your "extraordinary" is not out of line, as it has much more positive connotations than "inordinate". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:23, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

English is full of idioms, words and phrases whose meaning does not necessarily make sense when analysed. "Inordinate" seems to have had something like the current meanings since Late Middle English. The Parsons Tale (Chaucer) has: "The clothyng .. is cowpable .. for the superfluitee, or the inordinat scantnesse of it." In Early Modern English, the Acts of Henry VI includes "Statutes .. for the Punition of unlawful and inordinate Huntings in Forests." Oxford English Dictionary, Section, I p. 319. Remember, natural languages, such as English, are not logical, no matter what your teachers might have told you. - Donald Albury 23:33, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * You can say that again! Now, if you take "inordinate" to mean "disorderly", that expands the meaning. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:48, 31 May 2018 (UTC)


 * When you talk of a word "whose meaning does not necessarily make sense when analysed", I think you mean "when inferred from its constituent morphemes". If so, the term you may be looking for is noncompositional. Noncompositional idioms? Well of course: it's their very noncompositionality that makes them idioms. Noncompositional "in"-prefixed adjectives include infamous, which doesn't mean "not famous". -- Hoary (talk) 12:57, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
 * And invaluable is even more desirable (I almost said 'valuable') than valuable. Obligatory mention of flammable/inflammable.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  00:42, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
 * "Invaluable" is close kin to "priceless". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:17, 4 June 2018 (UTC)