Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2018 October 2

= October 2 =

Is there a form of of Kavanaugh with an o', like o'kavanaugh or o'cavanaugh etc?
After all, names like Sullivan are close to O'Sullivan, etc. I'm wondering after a quick google search of o'kavanaugh if Mark Judge incorrectly assumed the Irish name kavanaugh would also have an O'kavanaugh form.Thank you.144.35.116.10 (talk) 01:16, 2 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Our Kavanagh (surname) article says: "Kavanagh or Kavanaugh is a surname of Irish origin, Caomhánach in Irish Gaelic. It is properly Mac Murchadha Caomhánach (an example of an Irish agnomen; see Ó Catharnaigh Sionnach or Fox of Fir Teathbha), but is often now rendered 'Caomhánach' or rarely 'Ó Caomhánaigh'". Alansplodge (talk) 14:27, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I found three google hits for O'Cavanaugh but they were all in 19th century publications. Rmhermen (talk) 16:34, 3 October 2018 (UTC)


 * According to a British directory site "There are 3 people in the UK with the surname O'Kavanagh" (a quick Google will reveal their phone numbers). The The Book of Irish Families, Great & Small By Michael C. O'Laughlin (p. 160) says: "Kavanagh... Note the name does not have the common "Mac" or "O" prefix. The name was likely used as an epithet, although it has been recorded as O'Kavanagh". 21:46, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
 * According to History of Parliament Online there was a Field Marshal O’Kavanagh, who was governor of Prague. I have asked on the Humanities Desk for more information about him. DuncanHill (talk) 22:02, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
 * It turns out to have been one General Charles Kavanagh; no other source that I could find included the "O" prefix. Alansplodge (talk) 12:17, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Van Dyke brown
When used mid-sentence, should it be "van Dyke brown", or "Van Dyke Brown"? Joefromrandb (talk) 19:33, 2 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Depends on what spelling or style is preferred in the context you are using it. For example, if working within a style guide that uses the Oxford English Dictionary spelling, the adjective would be capitalized (but only spelled as a single word) and the noun lower case: That colour is called Vandyke brown. This may well vary if you need to follow an American or other style. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 22:52, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I've never seen it spelled as a single word. I do know that the color's namesake, Sir Anthony van Dyck, is spelled with a lowercase "v" (as are Dick van Dyke, et al.). As such, it just seems odd to me to see "Van Dyke Brown". Joefromrandb (talk) 14:48, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Dick Van Dyke spells his Van with a capital V. -- Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  21:22, 3 October 2018 (UTC)


 * I'm just reporting the OED spelling! As mentioned, you are of course free to use the spelling from a different dictionary or style guide. If you specify here which one you need, someone may be able to find the entry for you.70.67.193.176 (talk) 17:03, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Van Dyke brown, not Van Dyke Brown. Dutch names which are uncapitalized gain capitals when used without forenames but why capitalize Brown? Rmhermen (talk) 16:31, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I indeed meant to say: "Van Dyke brown". I've never seen "brown" capitalized; that was a typo on my end. Joefromrandb (talk) 19:02, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Chambers 20th Century Dictionary gives "vandyke brown". DuncanHill (talk) 21:31, 3 October 2018 (UTC)