Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2019 August 20

= August 20 =

What is the french word for table.
Wbat is the french word for tale. -- 15:33, 20 August 2019 Tablecloth1389


 * See table and table, where you will see that the French pronunciation is different, even though the word is spelt the same. (I assume you meant table and not tale where the French would be conte or histoire or even nouvelle, depending on context.)  Dbfirs  15:47, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

Wearing a trottoir
This is from Main Street. The protagonist Carol, stuck in Gopher Prairie, is fantasizing about visiting the East Coast.
 * "She pictured herself looking at Emerson's manse, bathing in a surf of jade and ivory, wearing a trottoir and a summer fur, meeting an aristocratic Stranger."

What is meant by "trottoir" here. Thank you in advance! ---Sluzzelin talk  15:35, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
 * It must be a misspelling or a typo; a trottoir is a sidewalk in French, and a trattoria is a sandwich shop in Italian, and I can't think of a similar word that would be used for an article of clothing. Google is turning up nothing useful for me.  -- Jayron 32 15:51, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
 * My OED gives trotteur (and also Anglicized trotter) as a term for "a short, neat walking dress". Perhaps trottoir is an error for that (and maybe on Carol's part rather than Lewis's). Deor (talk) 16:29, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks, both of you! Deor, that looks very likely. "Trotteur" hadn't occurred to me, but I wouldn't have recognised its dressiness anyway: up until this moment, a "trotteur" signified a baby walker to me! Thanks again. ---Sluzzelin talk  17:24, 20 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Is that toddler wearing a corset ? Never too young for internal organ damage ? SinisterLefty (talk)
 * Not sure, but entirely possible up to the late 19th Century. See this ad for example. ("Style 210 for Infants. Style 212, Children 4 to 6. Style 213 or 216, Misses 7 to 12. Style 219, for Ladies") ---Sluzzelin talk  21:48, 21 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Wow, they must have been out of their bloomin' minds. At least the youngest didn't seem to have them as tight as the one in the pic here. SinisterLefty (talk) 00:05, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

Alphabetical order when using numbers
If you are alphabetizing, say, a film named 12 Years a Slave, would that be alphabetized as the number "12" and placed before the letter "A" alphabetical items? Or after the letter "Z" items? Or would you alphabetize the title as if it were spelled out "Twelve" Years a Slave? Where is the Wikipedia rule or policy about this? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:53, 20 August 2019 (UTC)


 * General article is collation... AnonMoos (talk) 18:25, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Well, that's one ... then there's alphabetical order and there's lexicographical order. --76.69.116.4 (talk) 21:24, 20 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia rules in Help:Alphabetical order. --Wrongfilter (talk) 18:29, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
 * That's mainly related to the order in WP categories. If there were an article containing an alphabetical list and I wanted to insert 12 Years a Slave into the list, I'd insert it in the t's, as if 12 were spelled out. I believe that's the traditional practice of indexers. Deor (talk) 19:13, 20 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Thanks. But, is there any Wikipedia rule/policy about that?   Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 21:11, 20 August 2019 (UTC)


 * I don't see any mention of alphabetization in WP:MOS, and that's where I'd expect it to be if there is one. --76.69.116.4 (talk) 21:24, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, all. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:19, 21 August 2019 (UTC)