Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2019 June 12

= June 12 =

Japanese language
First, hello all, does anybody know a website to learn Japanese for free or paid, the former obviously preferred. Thank you. --LLcentury (talk) 11:33, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Are you interested in writing it or speaking it? InedibleHulk (talk) 20:10, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

, Thanks for your response!, in first place I'd like to learn to write, and use internet to later learn to speak on a University scholarship to Japan. --LLcentury (talk) 20:16, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a plan. I can't help you beyond asking for clarification, though. I hope someone else has what you need. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:25, 12 June 2019 (UTC)


 * No, first acquire an ability to converse. Then, and only then, worry about kana and kanji. Read what's said on the matter here by Victor Mair and others who (very successfully) acquired Japanese or Chinese as a second language. As for how/where to do it, Duckduckgo showed me this NHK site, with freely downloadable materials; as is common in Japanese teaching of English, there's not much in the target language and a lot about it in what's presumed to be your language. I'd hope that there are good alternatives. -- Hoary (talk) 09:31, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Ancient Greek Dipthongs
On the article Ancient Greek Phonology, words containing a dipthong where the second element is accented, are in the phonetic transcription shown as bearing an accent. The phonemic transcription does this as well, but not all the time. On Wiktionary however, the phonemic transcripion always shows the first element bearing the accent.

For example, the article has κελεύω /ke.leú.ɔː/ ('I command'): [ke.lew̌.wɔː], σημεῖον /sɛɛ.méi.on/ ('sign'): [sɛː.meĵ.jon], and Ἀθηναῖοι /a.tʰɛɛ.nái.oi/ ('Athenians'): [a.tʰɛː.naĵ.joi] (why the phonemic/phonetic discrepancy?).

On Wiktionary, there is /ke.lěu̯.ɔː/, /sɛː.mêː.on/, and /a.tʰɛː.nâi̯.oi̯/.

There are other instances of this as well. Which one is correct? déhanchements (talk) 23:56, 12 June 2019 (UTC)


 * I don't particularly understand phonetic transcriptions with an accent-mark on a semi-vowel symbol, and in Hellenistic Koine, the spelling "ει" represented a monophthong. In conventional Greek spelling, the accent mark is always written over the second vowel letter of a diphthong or vowel digraph spelling (if a mark is over the first of two vowel letters, that indicates that the two do not form a diphthong/digraph).  I don't know what the IPA transcription conventions are... AnonMoos (talk) 01:07, 13 June 2019 (UTC)


 * I hope no one minds if I convert the articles's transcriptions to those of Wiktionary, since tonal semivowels are bizarre anyways. déhanchements (talk) 03:50, 13 June 2019 (UTC)


 * The place for discussions about that article is Talk:Ancient Greek phonology... AnonMoos (talk) 04:06, 13 June 2019 (UTC)