Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2019 November 20

= November 20 =

Swedish broadcaster's newly found practice in airing non-Swedish TV series
I need some help from native Swedish speakers (or those professionally fluent in Swedish). See Talk:Sveriges Television. JSH-alive/talk/cont/mail 15:22, 20 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Pinging user:JIP. He (I think) is Finnish but seems to speak Swedish fluently.  --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 16:20, 20 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Yes, I understand Swedish well enough to be able to translate this. I've already started, but it's so much text that it's going to take some time. J I P  &#124; Talk 16:40, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

Here is my translation from the first link:

"You can be wild and active regardless of who you are. It's not reserved for boys"

The children's channel doesn't want to have just boys in main roles. Therefore they often choose to regender the characters when dubbing foreign series. One example is "Super wings" where the red airplane Jett has been changed to a girl. - That was what we wanted. If they had said no then we would have said no to the series, says Pontus Torpvret, the buying manager of the channel.

In the original "Super wings", the main character "Jett" is a boy, but in the Swedish translation the same character is a girl. Another example is the wild monster truck Linn in the series "Full fart i verksta", where in the original version it's a boy named Ted. The SVT children's channel has started changed the genders of animated characters in foreign series in the last three years, which Medierna i P1 was among the first to notice. Often it's about animal, machine or vehicle characters. - It feels like it's the children's channel's duty to show that we're as much for girls as for boys. The ultimate goal is 50/50, says Pontus Torpvret, the buying manager of the channel.

"We want to have ordinary strong girls"

But it's not just about giving half of the main roles to girls, says Pontus Torpvred. It's also about what kind of characters girls get. - We mostly want to show strong girls. Ordinary girls so to say. Girls who climb trees, girls who build cardboard box cars and girls who go on explorations. Like girls do in real life. At the same time we also want to show soft boys, he says.

About 70 per cent of the children's channel's material is bought from foreign countries. It can be an effort to find strong female lead characters. - It is often tradition that girls must be nice and tidy. Girls often get a role where they show what is OK and what is not OK, whereas boys tend to be wild and free. Here is where we want to go one step further: You can be free and wild regardless of who you are. It's not reserved just for boys, says Pontus Torpvred.

"If they say no then we say no"

It is not always that the children's channel gets their way with their wish to regender the characters. - There are some hindrances. Often these series are based on existing characters or some producer's original idea. Sometimes there are no problems and sometimes they question enormously and do not understand at all what we want to reach, but it is very different from one country to another, says Pontus Torpvred.

What happens if they say no?

- For example "Super wings", there we had this as a demand. If they had said no then we would have said no to the series. We already have series about planes and other vehicles as boys. We felt that we don't want to have another such series. So if they say no we say no, or we think again about why we want to buy the series.

Please note that although my Swedish is pretty fluent, it's not exactly perfect. I might have made the odd mistake here and there, but the text should be fairly correct otherwise. J I P &#124; Talk 22:34, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
 * My reply above happened to be exactly 3333 bytes in length. J I P  &#124; Talk 00:14, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

Latin epigram translation
"Eras judex, lector, et exitium" appears in Olivier le Daim, but I can't find a good online translation. Clarityfiend (talk) 20:17, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Though "lector" gets more g-hits, that might be because it's what Wikipedia and Wikisource have. French souces I found write lictor. ---Sluzzelin talk  21:12, 20 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Eras -- "You (singular) were"
 * Judex -- "judge"
 * Lector -- "reader"
 * Lictor -- "minor ancient Roman official"
 * Et -- "and"
 * Exitium -- "ruin, cause of destruction" AnonMoos (talk) 22:56, 20 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Text and footnote 13 from seems to imply exitium was as in judge, jury, and executioner .&mdash;eric 00:32, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

"Arte una noras radere cæsariem. Raptus ad excelsam Ludovici principis aulam, Mox Erebi furias moribus antevenis Et crinem huic tondens, dum suffers lingere ficos, Par ducibus, regi regulus alter eras.. ...Eras judex, lictor et exitium."

- Épigramme citée par Gaguin &mdash;eric 01:40, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * It's hard to tell but i think that note is for "tu es, à la fois, le juge, le bourreau et la mort."&mdash;eric 01:47, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * , so there's a french translation.&mdash;eric 02:20, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * lictor per Sluzzelin, EB messes up again. &mdash;eric 03:49, 21 November 2019 (UTC)


 * So, Clarityfiend, not that I'm authorised or even qualified, a possible translation would be "You were judge, executioner, and ruin", though bourreau and particularly lictor could have less crass meanings than executioner, but "You were judge, law enforcement, and ruin" doesn't quite cut it either, in my view. ---Sluzzelin talk  22:21, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * So maybe an ancestor of "judge, jury and executioner"? Clarityfiend (talk) 07:56, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Maybe, this Stack Exchange discussion might interest you, referring to Daniel Defoe and beyond. What seems to be missing, no matter how far back in time, is the "ruin, cause of destruction" part. ---Sluzzelin talk  00:05, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Is there enough to say "at the same time, the judge, the executioner and the death" in the article? Two sources for the French and from there to English seems pretty straightforward. Sluzzelin, how can you pass on et la mort? Maybe it is taking a bit of license with the latin, but a french editor and author have done that, not us.&mdash;eric 15:00, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm not sufficiently educated in Latin or familiar enough with WP conventions to answer your question. If it were "my article", I'd probably include the French translation and comment on how it differs from a literal translation. Yet, maybe that is an accurate translation. What little I did learn in Latin classes was limited to classical antiquity and did not include Medieval Latin, for example. Personally, I do like Jmar67's suggestion of "downfall" too. ---Sluzzelin talk  19:20, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
 * maybe Sextius from Cicero In Verrem 2.5.118-119 is the lictor who fits the bill?&mdash;eric 02:16, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Two suggestions: "You judged, punished, and brought to ruin" and "You were the judge, enforcer, and downfall". "Lictor" is undoubtedly correct in this context. "Executioner" is not logical when followed by "ruin" or "downfall". Jmar67 (talk) 01:03, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

Not on your Nellie
What is meaning this saying? Is only Northern English dialect. There was television program, no? Thank you. 86.187.232.72 (talk) 23:00, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm not British and have only learned English as a foreign language, but from what I've learned of English, it's an expression meaning "absolutely no way", "ain't gonna happen", if you will. J I P  &#124; Talk 00:11, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * See also wikt:not on your nelly. J I P  &#124; Talk 00:12, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, from rhyming slang "Nelly Duff", meaning "puff", as in breath of life, hence just "life". Them Cockneys know how to make things complicated! ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:42, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Google finds several people called Nelly Duff, none seem to be particularly notable. Although the names of people used in rhyming slang are sometimes celebrities, for example "Lionel Blairs" = flares, "Ruby Murray" = curry and "Johnny Cash" = slash, in other cases, a name seems to have been made up just to create a rhyme, an example is "Mickey Bliss" = piss, as in "taking the mickey". Alansplodge (talk) 16:24, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * In case it makes any difference, the spelling I've more often seen used in the phrase is "Nellie". {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.217.209.178 (talk) 18:28, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm sure it makes no difference at all, but the "y" variant is preferred by several dictionaries, but what do they know? Alansplodge (talk) 21:42, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * In some quarters, Alan, it can make all the difference. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:11, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * :-) Alansplodge (talk) 09:37, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
 * The Cockney rhyming slang origin suggests that this is/was certainly not a Northern English expression. The article for the TV comedy series, Not On Your Nellie which ran 1974-75 on ITV, does not say anything about the title; I guess it was really just a pun on the name of the lead character Nellie Pickersgill "... a Bolton woman who moves to London to help run her ailing father's Chelsea pub." Martinevans123 (talk) 20:36, 22 November 2019 (UTC)