Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2019 November 26

= November 26 =

Messager de Tahiti
Can someone help translate the first paragraph of this source: https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k45958031.item from French to English? It is the one about hostilities on Huahine. KAVEBEAR (talk) 18:28, 26 November 2019 (UTC)


 * My best attempt is:
 * Hostilities have resumed at Huahine. On the 18th of this month, Teriitaria vigorously attacked Teururai; his supporters launched¹ on three columns and, burning all the huts² that were found in their passage, advanced as far as Haeretere, Tatehau and the Church, positions that they occupied and where a very vigorous engagement took place.  Pushed back with losses on all the line by the forces³ of Teururai, they turned and beat a retreat, yielding from hut² to hut as far as Teriitaria's house, which, despite a last effort, fell to the power of Teururai; so the rout was complete, and the defeated party surrendered unconditionally the following day.  Teriitaria and his family fled.  There were 7 dead and 20 wounded.


 * I am not an expert in French, and I had these difficulties:
 * ¹ses partisans lances sur trois colonnes. As a noun, lance is a lance or spear.  As a verb it means "throws" or "launches".  My dictionaries don't show any use where it's an adjective.  If it could be, partisans lances could just be "spearmen" rather then describing what the (otherwise unspecified) supporters did.  I'm also not sure if they did what they did in three columns or against three columns of Teururai's men.
 * ²case: hut, cabin, shanty, small house, etc.
 * ³geas: this word is not in either of my French-English dictionaries. I doubt that it means geas, as that becomes fr:geis in French and we are in the wrong part of the world for that term to come up; so I've just guessed "forces" based on the general context of combat.
 * --76.69.116.4 (talk) 05:24, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Very good job IMHO. I also did this and came up with a very similar translation. Concerns: In three columns seems right. The word is the adjective lancés, and spearmen seems OK (I said armed with spears). The other word is gens (people, inhabitants). Jmar67 (talk) 06:04, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I was fooled by the poor quality of the image: I could not see an accent on lancés and could not make out the third letter in gens. --76.69.116.4 (talk) 07:17, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
 * The discussion above indicates that Teriitaria was a woman. I don't think that is evident from the source text here. The translation would need to be adapted. Jmar67 (talk) 07:07, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
 * French does not have different words for "his", "her", and "its". I just googled "Teriitaria" and the first hit was on Teriitaria I, who was a king, so I went with "his".  But now I see that Teriitaria II was a queen, and the date 1854 fits her reign.  So thanks. --76.69.116.4 (talk) 07:17, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

So now we have:
 * Hostilities have resumed at Huahine. On the 18th of this month, Teriitaria vigorously attacked Teururai; her spearmen, in three columns, and burning all the huts that were found in their passage, advanced as far as Haeretere, Tatehau and the Church, positions that they occupied and where a very vigorous engagement took place.  Pushed back with losses on all the line by Teururai's people, they turned and beat a retreat, yielding from hut to hut as far as Teriitaria's house, which, despite a last effort, fell to the power of Teururai; so the rout was complete, and the defeated party surrendered unconditionally the following day.  Teriitaria and her family fled.  There were 7 dead and 20 wounded.

--76.69.116.4 (talk) 07:17, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
 * "lancés sur trois colonnes" could mean "spread over three columns" and have nothing to do with spears. But spears were undoubtedly among the weapons used. Jmar67 (talk) 11:33, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Or actually"..starting out in three columns..." which would go well with the 3 targets they reached. As for "beat a retreat, yielding from hut to hut" might me correct in translation, but sounds a bit clutzy. I would say..."withdrawing house by house (while giving battle)". Lectonar (talk) 11:59, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
 * And it is geas in the text, but still probably gens, just a plain mistake...so forces, people would be the correct translation. Lectonar (talk) 12:03, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
 * To me it is clearly "gens" in the page image. Jmar67 (talk) 00:27, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
 * The term "fighting retreat" might fit here, so "beat a fighting retreat from hut to hut" perhaps? Alansplodge (talk) 09:00, 28 November 2019 (UTC)