Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2019 November 29

= November 29 =

Usage of narrative
Is narrative the same as story? For example, could a section be "In the narrative of X video game" be the same as "In the story of X video game"?Tintor2 (talk) 19:01, 29 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Basically, yes. But, in the example that you gave (In the narrative of X video game ... versus ... In the story of X video game), I think that "narrative" is the better choice of words.   Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:53, 4 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Nice. So narrative is a more formal word right?Tintor2 (talk) 22:10, 4 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Basically, yes. It's a bit more formal.  And it's a better "fit" for the sentence that you used as an example.  Thanks.   Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 01:37, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

Plural of gas
Why is gases (as opposed to gasses) the plural of "gas"?? One would naturally expect "gases" to be pronounced with a long a. Georgia guy (talk) 20:01, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * EO says the plural is "gasses". In contrast, the forms of "bus" seem to take a single "s", maybe because "buss" means "kiss". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:21, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Either form seems to be acceptable (Wiktionary). Don't understand the OP's comment. The double "s" is not required for pronunciation. There is a tendency to double the consonant because it is stressed. I would use "gases" and "buses". Jmar67 (talk) 20:33, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * As for what I said about "gases", it looks as if it were pronounced GAY-siz, and would be the plural of "gase". (I know this word doesn't exist; I'm just talking about it as what one would expect "gases" to be the plural of.) Georgia guy (talk) 20:42, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * As in bases, cases, vases (American style), etc. But those already have a long a. Can you think of any other nouns that fit the "gas" and "bus" construction? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:23, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Crocuses, nexuses and abacuses - all from Latin - as is bus (omnibus). Mikenorton (talk) 21:46, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Atlases and aliases - also latin - and biases, which is from the Middle French biais. Mikenorton (talk) 22:39, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Middle French came from Latin. (Mikenorton, you put "not Latin" in the edit summary for clarification on what this is a response to.) Georgia guy (talk) 23:31, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Well, according to this entry at etymonline, the origins of bias are probably from Old Provençal and then possibly from original Greek epikarsios via Latin. I was just pointing out that it's not a straight loan from Latin. Mikenorton (talk) 10:27, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Previous ref-desk thread: Reference desk/Archives/Language/2009 April 7. Deor (talk) 23:40, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Oxford Dictionaries say "gases" for British/World English, "gasses" for US. Cambridge goes for "gas" or "gasses" regardless of variant. Bazza (talk) 14:08, 30 November 2019 (UTC)

Negative given names
It occurred to me that there are a few, mostly devotional, Spanish given names with negative meanings such as Angustias (sorrows), Dolores (pains), Lágrimas (tears), Martirio (martyrdom), Olvido (oblivion) and Soledad (loneliness). Addolorata (grieving) is an Italian example. What I'd like to know is if there are negative or undesirable first names in other cultures too. --80.180.16.160 (talk) 21:44, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * During the 16th century, particularly in certain rural parts of my native Sussex where Puritan views were common, there was a brief period when some children were baptised with unusual names which reflected Puritan values. Most were what I would describe as positive or at least neutral—some of the more interesting examples are "Safe-on-Highe"  [sic], "Fear-not", "Free-gift" (!) and "Repent"—but I've found at least two which could be classed as negative: "Sorry-for-sin" and "No-merit".  Both of these were documented in the parish of Warbleton in the 1580s.  I have a book which makes reference to this, but you may also be interested in reading Curiosities of Puritan nomenclature (.txt version; there may be a scanned version or a .pdf as well at that link), particularly from about page 120 onwards.  Hassocks 5489 (Floreat Hova!)  22:01, 29 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Hassocks5489 -- The most famous Puritan name is probably "If-Jesus-Christ-had-not-died-for-thee-thou-hadst-been-damned Barebones" (later more commonly known as Nicholas Barbon).
 * 80.180.16.160 -- Many nicknames are negative of course. There was reputedly a custom in some cultures of giving unflattering names during babyhood and early childhood to avert the attention of the evil eye and thereby give the child a greater chance to live.  (Some Arab groups have been said to name boys with feminine names during their early years for the same reason.) AnonMoos (talk) 08:20, 30 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Spain might be said to have a particular historical predilection for such meanings... 93.136.76.86 (talk) 18:27, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

How about that for a name: Ulbolsyn (Ұлболсын) "let it be a son", Kazakh name given to girls when the family was expecting a boy (in hopes that their next child would be male). --Theurgist (talk) 01:20, 1 December 2019 (UTC)


 * In South Africa there are names such as these, I used to work with Stranger and Memory, I went to school with Justice. Anton 81.131.40.58 (talk) 09:30, 4 December 2019 (UTC)