Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2020 August 28

= August 28 =

Sic semper tyrannis
John Wilkes Booth is said to have shouted "Sic semper tyrannis!" after killing Abraham Lincoln. But how did he pronounce it? J I P &#124; Talk 00:28, 28 August 2020 (UTC)


 * "Semper" would have stress on the first syllable, and "Tyrannis" on the middle syllable. Otherwise it would depend on whether he used the Traditional English pronunciation of Latin or a more historically accurate one (called "Erasmian" when it comes to Greek, not sure if there's a similar term for Latin...) AnonMoos (talk) 05:28, 28 August 2020 (UTC)


 * It may plausibly have sounded somewhat like /sɪk ˈsɛmpɚ taɪˈɹæ.nɪs/ But Booth may have had a somewhat non-rhotic accent from his English mother, or perhaps instead extrrravagantly rolled r's as a common affectation among old-school stage actors. Or a 19th-century Baltimore accent from where he grew up, learned Latin and began his theatrical career, so this suggested phonetic description must be interpreted very broadly.  --Lambiam 11:23, 28 August 2020 (UTC)


 * The term would be "Church Latin".  To Catholic priests and religious Latin is a living language and the pronunciation follows the vernacular at the time the Church was founded. 2A00:23C0:7980:3F00:CDAD:6AF2:6034:DF10 (talk) 12:51, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
 * The term for what? For a more historically accurate pronunciation of Latin than the traditional English pronunciation? How do you think Brutus would have pronounced "Caesar", and how do you think a priest (who still speaks Ecclesiastical Latin) would pronounce "Reddite igitur quae sunt Caesaris Caesari" (Mark 12:17)? Also, when do you think the Church was founded? They probably spoke Aramaic and Syriac. --Lambiam 20:37, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
 * (WP:WHAAOE) 107.15.157.44 (talk) 18:07, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Children learn accents from their peers rather than their parents, see for one example, but this is a consistent and well documented phenomenon which starts at a surprisingly young age.  If Booth had an accent, it was probably more closely aligned to the community he was raised in rather than that of either of his parents.  Unless he had an affectation he was deliberately using.  -- Jayron 32 12:52, 28 August 2020 (UTC)


 * 107.15.157.44 -- the article "Ecclesiastical Latin" only has a small section on pronunciation. In any case "Church Latin" is not the counterpart of "Erasmian Greek" -- Erasmian Greek was a serious and reasonably successful attempt to reconstruct the ancient pronunciation of Greek, while Church Latin is a slightly-adjusted version of the Italian pronunciation of Latin, as used by the Catholic church in Italy and the Vatican City... AnonMoos (talk) 20:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I didn't read the article past the lead; I just added link since it was mentioned (as a "courtesy" for those of us unfamiliar with the term). 107.15.157.44 (talk) 21:43, 28 August 2020 (UTC)