Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2020 November 22

= November 22 =

Google Books
When I click on a title in Google Books, the book shows up prominently, but the background becomes dark gray and I can't access menu items like "Overview", "Get the Book", etc. Indexguy (talk) 02:13, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a browser problem; clearing browser cache is the 1st thing to try. If you need assistance (it depends on which browser), inquire over at the computing desk. 107.15.157.44 (talk) 05:27, 22 November 2020 (UTC) . . . [edit:06:44, 22 November 2020 (UTC)]   I just noticed that Google Books has "new" and "classic" versions -- try the other one.

Clearing the cache didn't help. Clicking on "Advanced Search" didn't help. Clicking on "Search help" instructed me to click on the title, then, in the upper right hand corner, click on "Clear search X" which solved it, bringing me to classic Google Books. As a general matter, I don't mind programmers graying out areas and making them unclickable, but it would be helpful if they provided "goto" information when you hover over those areas! Indexguy (talk) 12:50, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Phonetic pangram in French
Is there any phonetic/phonemic pangram in French? —-A11w1ss3nd (talk) 11:52, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi, a number of efforts can be found on this mailing list discussion. They are pretty nonsensical; the first one is Un jeune époux suit inconfortablement chauve duègne gouailleuse. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 00:11, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you 🙂.—A11w1ss3nd (talk) 07:57, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * That doesn't cover everything, such as the letter c with the squiggle under it. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:42, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Hey Bugs, you're quite right for a regular pangram, which is based on the alphabet. If you'd like to see some of those for French, have a look at Pangramme in French Wikipedia which has two examples of pangrams that use all the letters of the French alphabet, including the 13 with diacritics! In this case, however, a phonetic pangram means it uses the 34-36 different sounds that occur in the French language, no matter how they are spelled. In this case, the /s/ sound represented by ç appears in "suit". 70.67.193.176 (talk) 01:53, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Even a regular pangram that aims to include every letter may omit symbols that are not considered full letters in the language concerned. The French example Portez ce vieux whisky au juge blond qui fume has no ç either. Anyways, a few examples of phonetic pangrams in English are listed in Pangram. --Theurgist (talk) 02:10, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * A Google search for "Pangramme phonétique" yield this marvel:
 * MUOBZLNDSATEGPYWQFIJKCRXHV,
 * or, read aloud (using the French letter names) sounding like ému aux baisers [d’]Hélène (déesse athée), Égée, pays grec, doux, bleu, vécut effigies cassées et rixes achevées). Which even means something; Google translate produces: "moved by the kisses of Helena (atheist goddess), Aegean, Greek country, soft, blue, lived broken effigies and finished brawls". Some parts are truly wondrous (PY → pays grec; WQ → doux, bleu, vécut). (The source has  d' Hélène, but I do not recognize the underlined part in the acronymic version. I also have not checked whether all French phonemes actually do occur, but the of bleu in the French pronunciation of the letter W is the French schwa, rounded here before the following high vowel of vé.)  --Lambiam 13:33, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * OMG Lambian, that's amazing.70.67.193.176 (talk) 15:20, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Z is pronounced zed as in British English, hence the d in d'Hélène. --Wrongfilter (talk) 13:43, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Lambiam, that text misses at least all nasal vowels (like in „un bon vin blanc“). —A11w1ss3nd (talk) 17:27, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Reminds me of Mots D'Heures: Gousses, Rames. Mikenorton (talk) 17:59, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * , loved that one; gave it to a friend who's a French prof, as a gift. I still have my Alice In Many Tongues. Mathglot (talk) 02:52, 26 November 2020 (UTC)


 * , that also also makes a great quiz, to email around to your friends, or to put on social media. Only, they'll just google it to find the result. In this version, they'll get no results if they paste it into google, and they'll have to work it out the long way: ΜUОΒΖLΝDSАΤЕGРҮWQFΙЈКСRХΗV &mdash; Cheers, Mathglot (talk) 17:58, 26 November 2020 (UTC)