Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2020 October 22

= October 22 =

Admiral
In Kantai Collection, the character representing HMS Warspite pronounces the word "Admiral" as /ˈæd.maɪ.ɹəl/ ("ad-mai-ral") in her voice files, which was apparently cited by the game creators to be a former pronunciation of the English before or around the ship's time. Is there any truth or merit to this? --72.234.12.37 (talk) 08:50, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi, the first contemporary dictionary I found was the Concise Oxford from 1912, which gives the modern pronunciation with the schwa in the “mir” syllable. (See the pronunciation guide on the page right before A ). 70.67.193.176 (talk) 14:35, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
 * And checking for anything earlier (because of the “before”) in your question, I looked at The Oxford Dictionary of Original Shakespearean Pronunciation which gives /ɪ/, not /aɪ/. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 15:15, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
 * The word is from the Arabic amir-al ("commander of the...").  The Oxford English Dictionary explains it thus: But as is usual with foreign words, popular etymology was soon at work on these original forms, assimilating them to more familiar words...by treating the am- as...L. adm-... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.31.65.97 (talk • contribs) 17:33, 22 October 2020 (UTC) ‎
 * I understand that "admiral" is descended from an Arabic term and has no relation to the Latin-descended "admire" or "admirable", which is what this peculiar pronunciation seems to presume or falsely suggest (aside from poor understanding of English from the Japanese creator's part). I just want to know if this peculiar pronunciation had ever been in usage or recorded in any English-speaking locale before or around the time the HMS Warspite was built, as the creator claims. --72.234.12.37 (talk) 12:38, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

What is this? (help from Chinese speakers)
Hello all. I need some help identifying this document, which was republished in an 1879 book:

The bottom text, in Portuguese, says "manifesto published by the Chinese against foreigners". Any ideas as to what manifesto this refers to? Thanks! ~ ★ nmaia d 11:24, 22 October 2020 (UTC)


 * From pt:wp:

O fracassado Tratado de Tianjin

''Durante a segunda metade do século XIX, as principais potências europeias humilharam o já fraco Governo Imperial Chinês da Dinastia Qing, forçando-lhe a assinar os chamados Tratados Desiguais que defendiam somente os interesses das potências europeias, em detrimento dos interesses do Governo Chinês. Nestes tratados, o Governo Chinês era obrigado a abrir os seus portos comerciais, a aceitar a ocupação europeia em certas terras chinesas e aceitar a divisão da China em "áreas de influência" europeia (enfraquecendo o Governo Chinês).''

''Porventura aproveitando a situação, em 13 de Agosto de 1862, o Governador Isidoro Francisco Guimarães conseguiu que o governo chinês assinasse um tratado em Tianjin (ou Tientsin). Este tratado, composto por 54 artigos, reconhecia que Macau era uma colónia portuguesa. Mas, ele nunca foi ratificado visto que o Governador e Ministro plenipotenciário daquela época, José Rodrigues Coelho do Amaral, regressou a Macau, sem o ratificar, protestando contra as objecções dos delegados chineses relativamente à interpretação do artigo nono. Eles defendiam que Macau não podia deixar de ser considerado um território chinês, levantando uma azeda discussão com Coelho do Amaral, em Maio de 1864, quando este chegou a Tianjin para ratificar o tratado.''

(The disputed Treaty of Tianjin

During the second half of the nineteenth century, the principal European powers humiliated the already weak Imperial Chinese Government of the Qing Dynasty, forcing it to sign the so-called Unequal Treaties which defended only the interests of the European powers, in detriment of the interests of the Chinese Government. In these treaties, the Chinese Government was obliged to open its commercial ports, to accept the European occupation in certain Chinese territories and accept the division of China into European "areas of influence" (weakening the Chinese Government).

While approving the situation, on 13 August 1862 Governor Isidoro Francisco Guimarães got the Chinese government to sign a treaty in Tianjin (or Tientsin). This treaty, composed of 54 articles, recognised that Macao was a Portuguese colony. But, it never was ratified since the Governor and Minister plenipotenciary of that epoch, José Rodrigues Coelho do Amaral, returned to Macao, without ratifying it, protesting against the objections of the Chinese delegates relative to the interpretation of the ninth article. They protested that Macao could not stop being considered a Chinese territory, conducting an acidic discussion with Coelho do Amaral, in May of 1864, when he arrived at Tianjin to ratify the treaty.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.159.12.93 (talk) 12:03, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
 * That seems related, but doesn't quite yet help identify this document. I'm wondering 1) what it says 2) if zh.wiki has an article for it. ~ ★ nmaia d 14:38, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I've removed the underlines from José Rodrigues Coelho do Amaral's name as Portuguese is not written like that.  I can see what has happened - IPs have just been kicked off Portuguese wikipedia, so they no longer have access to the source text when copying articles. 2.31.65.97 (talk) 17:37, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Hey there, I actually found an article in Chinese discussing this piece of work, which was apparently a piece of pro-Qing government/anti-Western polemical popular art that was circulating among the rural populace. The top three panels (left to right) depict "Loyal Official Tian Xingnu", "Right-hand Official Li Hongzhang", and "Upright Official Bao Chao", who were all prominent Qing officials. The lower three panels depict polemic against foreign people, foreign religion, and clergy. Much of the writing in the picture is too faded to see clearly, but the article gives a transcript of the middle panel: "The Jesus-Barbarians have left us calamity, turning righteousness into betrayal through bribery. How should we protect our loyalty? Those below who have transgressed against the above deserve ten thousand deaths, who have conspired treacherously to offend the heavens."  bibliomaniac 1  5  18:54, 22 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Thank you! Based on this and other comments elsewhere, I've added annotations and structured data related to the picture. If you see anything incorrect or incomplete, please feel free to improve it. It seems no Wikipedia article or Wikidata item exists yet to describe this pamphlet, sadly. ~ ★ nmaia d 04:46, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Citation style
Are there any citation styles that use author-date in-text citations (Smith, 2010), but allow for the omission of the words "et al." with multiple authors? I thought that I saw a Harvard-like style similar to this in a paper once.75.89.16.186 (talk) 19:42, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

I found this example. Notice that there is just one author in every in-text citation, even though there are multiple authors for most of the sources.  Does anyone know what type of style this is?75.89.16.186 (talk) 21:31, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Why did the first name "Love" for girls fall out of use in English-speaking countries over the last two or three centuries?
Why did the first name "Love" for girls fall out of use in English-speaking countries over the last two or three centuries? For instance, here is a Love who was born in 1767: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/101817471/love-phillips Yet nowadays the first name "Love" for girls in the Anglosphere is almost unheard of. Why exactly is this the case?

Also, for what it's worth, the equivalent of "Love"--specifically "Lyubov"--has remained a popular first name in some Slavic countries. Futurist110 (talk) 21:22, 22 October 2020 (UTC)


 * "Charity" as a name is actually intended in many cases to be equivalent to "Love" (see article Theological Virtues). In the 17th century, there was a tendency toward Puritan names composed of ordinary English words -- most extravagantly "If-Jesus-Christ-had-not-died-for-thee-thou-hadst-been-damned Barebone" (also known as Nicholas Barbon), but those were only ever used by limited groups, and fell out of style... AnonMoos (talk) 03:53, 23 October 2020 (UTC)


 * What's interesting, though, is that over the last couple of centuries, there appear to be much more people named Charity than there are people named Love in the Anglosphere. Futurist110 (talk) 19:54, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Faith, Hope and Charity ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:14, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Yep, I'm already well-aware of them. "Vera, Nadezhda, Lyubov" in Russian. Futurist110 (talk) 06:05, 25 October 2020 (UTC)


 * 'Love as a name actually dates to Anglo-Saxon times, when OE: Lufu “love” was used as a girl's name, and a masculine form Lufa also existed... In the sixteenth century it was embraced by the Puritans and the adoption of the surname boosted its use further, ensuring its survival into the twentieth century when the "Hippie Movement" of the 1960s rejuvenated it again'. Llewellyn's Complete Book of Names for Pagans, Wiccans etc. (p. 362) Alansplodge (talk) 07:58, 23 October 2020 (UTC)