Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2020 October 26

= October 26 =

San Franciscan, HIV
How do you say San Franciscan in Chinese? What about HIV?BuyAthenaTroy (talk) 03:14, 26 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Until a Mandarin speaker happens by, our HIV article links to zh:人類免疫缺陷病毒. Alansplodge (talk) 10:33, 26 October 2020 (UTC)


 * For the pronunciation of 人類免疫缺陷病毒, Wiktionary gives Pyinyin rénlèi miǎnyì quēxiàn bìngdú for Mandarin, and jan4 6 min5 jik6 kyut3 ha(a)m6 beng6 duk6 for Cantonese. --Lambiam 15:05, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
 * In a less official, more spoken sort of context, "AIDS" is often àizībìng, trad. 愛滋病, simpl. 爱滋病. There is also the slightly more formal, and longer, àizī bìngdú (trad. 愛滋病毒, simpl. 爱滋病毒), which is simply an expansion of the 2nd component (-病 -bìng, "disease") to its "fuller" two-syllable form bìngdú. While trying to find this information, I also saw examples where English "AIDS" is also used (perhaps pronounced either àizī or èizī?, no idea).--Ser be etre shi (talk) 19:56, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

In Chinese, if you ever want to talk about a person from a place, you can just add 人 (rén, person) to the end of the place name. So "San Franciscan" is simply 旧金山人, 旧金山 being the Chinese name for San Francisco.  bibliomaniac 1  5  18:42, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
 * In Mandarin anyway. In Cantonese we refer to it as 三藩市. — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  18:10, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Nice, I've heard that usage in Mandarin as well.  bibliomaniac 1  5  19:09, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
 * And hello from 新金山 aka Ink-You-Book. --Shirt58 (talk) 00:46, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
 * It has nothing to do with Mandarin, Cantonese or other varieties that somehow never deserve any mention. One term is coined by the Gold Rush, the other is a sound transcription. Hong Kong is not the only place where Cantonese is spoken.--2001:16B8:2DCE:F100:7896:764C:F36D:44E4 (talk) 06:43, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

How do you say Empanada or Taqueria in Chinese?
Hmm?BuyAthenaTroy (talk) 05:16, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Apparently the symbol for Taco Bell is 塔可钟. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 08:28, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Chinese WP has an article for "empanada" at zh:恩潘纳达; Pinyin: "ēnpānnàdá". The article for "taco" is at zh:墨西哥夹饼 "mòxīgē jiàbǐng", while the mdgb.net dictionary has a similar 墨西哥卷饼 "mòxīgē juǎnbǐng". Both are just a literal description as "Mexican pastry". The zh-wp article also mentions the phonetic rendering 塔可 "tǎkě", as in the company name Bugs saw (where 钟 literally means "bell"). Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:05, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the name for Taco Bell won't necessarily have the word "taco" in it... I know in Japan it's common for a company to be named something that sounds like the English company name, but it's in Japanese and has different meaning. Almost like but not quite a bilingual pun. Maybe in China too. Temerarius (talk) 18:26, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
 * They just transliterated "taco" into characters that most sound like it: 塔可. — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  18:08, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Fut.Perf. hit all the main points, although I would say that a 夹饼 or 卷饼 isn't really a pastry. If anything, a taco is like the Mexican version of a 夹饼. 卷饼 looks more like a burrito, and I think that 墨西哥卷饼 generally refers to that instead of a taco. To respond to another part of the original question, if you wanted to say taqueria, you could refer to it as a 墨西哥夹饼店, 店 (diàn) being the catch-all word for a place that sells a certain thing or food.  bibliomaniac 1  5  18:38, 26 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Just to note that "Taqueria" would be similarly unknown (IMHO) here in the UK. You can buy Tacos in the supermarket, so we know about those. Alansplodge (talk) 14:17, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Hm? -- Jayron 32 12:36, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Hey, come on Jayron, you found one 'Taqueria' in the middle of London. I agree with Alan, the term 'taqueria' is unknown to 99% of the population in the UK. Have a nice day. Richard Avery (talk) 13:02, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
 * It's a shame that there isn't a source of information for British users of this reference desk to use where they could search for information on words that are unfamiliar to them. You know, like some sort of online encyclopedia with a search bar where they can learn about words from places and cultures with which they may be unfamiliar.  You know, somewhere that may tell them what a taqueria might mean.  Someone should invent something like that.  It may help our British users, and others, learn new things about the world. -- Jayron 32 15:52, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
 * That seems to be a local store in West London called "Taqueria". I would not know it specialises in Mexican food without visiting its web site. As says, asking most people where the nearest taqueria is would get a blank look here in the UK. Bazza (talk) 13:04, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
 * The website says "...we served tacos and aguas frescas [those last two words mean, presumably, "fresh waters"] to the Mexican-starved crowd of Notting Hill...In 2005, Taqueria opened in Westbourne Grove...Our tacos are, of course, our speciality..." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.27.12.232 (talk) 13:22, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Aguas frescas are different varieties of juices and other, usually freshly prepared, drinks often served alongside various Latin American cuisines. -- Jayron 32 15:49, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
 * My home town in East London has numerous Indian and Chinese restaurants, Turkish kebab shops, a tapas bar, a Japanese noodle bar, an Italian trattoria, a Nepalese restaurant and one that specialises in Ghanaian and Jamaican cuisine, and for the patriotic there are fish and chip or pie and mash establishments, and also a McDonald's; but if you want Mexican food you either have to make it yourself or travel to the other side of the metropolis to the touristy West End. I s'pose its because we don't have many Mexican people here (or if we do, they don't like cooking). Alansplodge (talk) 17:23, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Not sure where in East London you live, but this shows several Mexican restaurants (including at least one described as a Taqueria) and none of them require a trip across the city center to the West End. I don't know where you live, so maybe none of these are strictly within walking distance of your bed, but there are Mexican restaurants east of London.  As an aside, real Mexican cuisine (in contrast to the overcheesed Americanized version of it) is delightful and if you have a good Mexican restaurant available, it may be worth checking out.  -- Jayron 32 14:34, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
 * And it's a shame that Americans aren't a little more worldy-wise and understanding that there are different cultures and ways of life other than their own; and that when someone helpfully points that out they can't resist some unwelcome patronising. (Thanks, though, for the insight into fresh waters.) Bazza (talk) 15:59, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Nope, it's not "Americans". It's just me.  Most Americans are respectful, decent, and well aware of other cultures around the world.  I, on the other hand, am a total asshole.  Don't ever assume any other American is like me just because I was born in the U.S.  It's solely me that's obnoxious in this way.  -- Jayron 32 16:02, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
 * :-) One of my neighbours was American (his wife still is, but he swore allegiance to Her Maj.). Both fine and decent people, as you say. Bazza (talk) 16:13, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Cultural knowledge is geographically contextual. In England the vast majority of men will know what "a thin edge to long leg" means. But most Americans will have to go for that search box that you patronisingly referred to. Richard Avery (talk) 18:31, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, at least the ones that are cricket fans will. The point I was making is that no one should expect their local knowledge to be universal.  I don't understand why you should think that British people should be exempt to that.  -- Jayron 32 18:39, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
 * , you miss 's point(s). In England, the vast majority of men are sufficiently familiar with cricket to understand such terms, even if they aren't "fans" and have never played: it's that deeply embedded in the roots of our culture.
 * You yourself seem to be reversing your initial argument. Of course British users can look up unfamiliar words like "Taqueria" if they encounter them, but (as several have tried to explain to you), that word is not in common use in the UK, and an establishment corresponding to it would normally call itself a "Mexican restaurant." A few establishments in London (>600 square miles, ~9 million population plus millions of visitors) using it doesn't count, because London is a cosmopolitan melting pot where you can find anything, but it's unrepresentative of England/Britain/the UK as a whole. (John Cleese has described London as "not really an English city any more", and despite some controversy he is (IMO) not wrong.) {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.200.129.143 (talk) 10:35, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I've not reversed any argument. I have always maintained that people need to be sensitive to the fact that the world is not the same as where you live, and that an awareness of the fact that local context is not universal.  Also, repeating to me things I already know and agree with is not particularly useful in this context.  I have never claimed that the word Taqueria was in common use in the UK.  I never have expected it to be.  I don't know why you feel the need to remind me of that.  I was aware before this whole thread started, continue to be aware of it, and will not stop being aware of it when this discussion ends.  -- Jayron 32 11:53, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Apologies for starting a somewhat acrimonious debate. I wasn't claiming that the US usage was somehow invalid or inferior, just pointing out that the word might well be unknown in China, because it certainly is in another Anglophone country. Alansplodge (talk) 17:08, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
 * No, you're fine. As I explained above, you did nothing wrong.  I am an asshole, and cannot help myself sometimes.  -- Jayron 32 18:11, 30 October 2020 (UTC)