Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2021 August 8

= August 8 =

Post-nominal A.M.
I apologize if this is an elementary request, but I'm currently working on the article Jacob Green. In his autobiography, the letters A.M. follow his name, and although I've tried my best to research what they stand for, I'm at a loss. The only one I thought it could stand for from the A.M. Wikipedia disambiguation link was a Master of Arts, though Green never secured a master's degree. Similarly, Jonathan Edwards, influential theologian of the Great Awakening, features the A.M. occasionally at the end of his name. I would not be surprised if this is simply a quirk of some archaic writing that isn't commonly used anymore, though I could be mistaken. Anyone who can provide some information on this would be greatly appreciated, as I'm confused how a simple Google search isn't working. PoliticsIsExciting (talk) 04:41, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
 * At Master's degree it says: "From the late Middle Ages until the nineteenth century, the pattern of degrees was therefore to have a bachelor's and master's degree in the lower faculties and to have bachelor's and doctorates in the higher faculties. In the United States, the first master's degrees (Magister Artium, or Master of Arts) were awarded at Harvard University soon after its foundation.[4] In Scotland, the pre-Reformation universities (St Andrews, Glasgow, and Aberdeen) developed so that the Scottish MA became their first degree, while in Oxford, Cambridge and Trinity College, Dublin, the MA was awarded to BA graduates of a certain standing without further examination from the late seventeenth century, its main purpose being to confer full membership of the university. At Harvard the 1700 regulations required that candidates for the master's degree had to pass a public examination, but by 1835 this was awarded Oxbridge-style three years after the BA."
 * Note that it doesn't say when between 1700 and 1835 the rules changed at Harvard. Green graduated from there in 1744, so maybe they were already issuing the automatic master's (and abbreviating it AM rather than MA) at that time, or maybe they did it some time later in his life and he started using the post-nominal after that. Anyone feel like asking Harvard? --184.144.99.72 (talk) 05:22, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Appreciate the help. It appears you are correct upon looking more into it. Just wanted to check to ensure that it wasn't some religious society or something. Thanks again. PoliticsIsExciting (talk) 18:20, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
 * You can also look at Master of Arts where it lists a number of US institutions that use AM for 'Artium Magister'. 2A00:23C8:4583:9F01:FDA5:13C4:F88D:5D4D (talk) 10:45, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

What's a fortnight in the USA?
This Australian only very recently discovered that a word I have been using frequently for most of my 70+ years apparently doesn't exist in American English. That word is "fortnight". Our article on the subject says "In North America it is usual to say biweekly." But that's wrong. Biweekly would be the equivalent of fortnightly, not fortnight. Is there an American equivalent of fortnight? (Apart from the obvious "two weeks".) HiLo48 (talk) 06:42, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
 * That or "14 days".
 * The fortnight isn't exactly unknown in North America, but it's one of those obscure units used by foreigners or by people who geekily love using obscure units. --184.144.99.72 (talk) 08:09, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
 * So, no fortnights in Canada either? HiLo48 (talk) 08:20, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
 * It's one of those obscure units used by foreigners or... --184.144.99.72 (talk) 08:23, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Cool. I shall correct the article. 09:36, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Although I suspect Fortnite now has some currency amongst North American youth. Alansplodge (talk) 11:24, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Hockey Night in Canada is an institution, but less popular sports would have to settle for something like Lacrosse Fortnightly in New Westminster. Clarityfiend (talk) 19:25, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Many Americans know what it means but they don't use it often. It's like other Britishisms, such as saying "penultimate" instead of "next to last". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 11:44, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't think "penultimate" is a Britishism, per se. It's a somewhat obscure, high-register word in both varieties.  (Using it to mean "an extreme example of" is, of course, simply an error.) --Trovatore (talk) 16:54, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't say it was either obscure or high-register, one hears football commentators and the like using it. In Britain, that is. DuncanHill (talk) 17:00, 8 August 2021 (UTC)


 * It's often used by English-speaking linguists of any nationality when discussing which syllable in a word receives stress. The term "antepenultimate syllable" also occurs in such discussions. AnonMoos (talk) 04:45, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
 * "Then it flashed through her mind what her mother had said with her antepenultimate breath ..." —Tamfang (talk) 00:40, 12 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Both words are known and used in the U.S., but are less common than the equivalent descriptors "two weeks" and "second-to-last"/"next-to-last". -- Jayron 32 12:11, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Is not biweekly, twice in a week, whereas bimonthly would be twice in a month, neither being 14 days (unless most Februarys), although bimonthly might be close (or lunar)? (compare, biannually and biennially) -- Alanscottwalker (talk) 12:36, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Some of us insist that "bi-(time period)" means "every two periods". "Biweekly" is indeed every two weeks; twice in a week is "semi-weekly". Similarly "bimonthly" and "semi-monthly", and "biennally" (or "biannually") and "semi-annually".  Others do what they will. --184.144.99.72 (talk) 18:18, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Oh. I now see there are confused bi-ways, so to speak ("Sorry, not sorry")  -- Alanscottwalker (talk) 18:41, 9 August 2021 (UTC)


 * I think I have never heard biweekly used to mean 'twice a week'. Or at least: the number of times I have found anyone using the word in this sense pales to nothing beside the number of times I've witnessed disputes about the word itself. —Tamfang (talk) 00:46, 12 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Pulling up Google ngram charts for the British and American corpuses respectively shows the shifting usage – fortnight begins to fall in British usage in the 1950s and the crossover is the late 1970s whereas in American English, two weeks took off from 1830 and the crossover was in the 1860s . Alansplodge is quite right about a recent big rise in fortnite in the US but not the UK:  70.67.193.176 (talk) 17:34, 9 August 2021 (UTC)


 * The term is not commonly used in North American English, although it may exist in some regional variants. This could be because it hadn't entered the English language by the early 17th century when Europeans first settled on the Eastern seaboard or it might have died out. there seems no obvious reason to have a 2 syllable word, fortnight, to represent a two syllable phrase, two weeks. But it is a contraction of fourteen nights. I wonder though if the U.S. adopted the expressed, it would be written "fortnite." TFD (talk) 18:16, 9 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Perhaps like this non-native English speaker in England, fortnight is associated primarily with Shakespeare plays in U.S. and some other places. -- Alanscottwalker (talk) 18:28, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
 * It appears in Romeo and Juliet when Lady Capulet says that Lammastide will be in a "fortnight and odd days". Alansplodge (talk) 00:14, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Brevity isn't everything; we also say "quarter of an hour" instead of "fifteen minutes". Alansplodge (talk) 00:25, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Unless we're in Devon, in which case we'd say "dreckly". Martinevans123 (talk) 11:22, 10 August 2021 (UTC)