Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2021 December 28

= December 28 =

Dialog doubt in No Time To Die
James Bond takes a ride from a african woman, Nomi:


 * James Bond: What do you dive for?
 * Nomi: I have a thing for old wrecks.

('James Bond laughs')

What does "old wrecks" mean? Rizosome (talk) 00:02, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
 * That's intended as a double entendre: she dives for old shipwrecks, and she implies that Bond is an "old wreck" (that she might be attracted to). 2603:6081:1C00:1187:B8DD:730:3725:66E8 (talk) 00:12, 28 December 2021 (UTC)


 * See also Ramblin' Wreck from Georgia Tech... AnonMoos (talk) 20:07, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

I am satisfied by this line: she implies that Bond is an "old wreck" (that she might be attracted to). Rizosome (talk) 00:07, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

To give (someone) gyp
As in the phrase "my leg's been giving me gyp again" etc. What is the origin of the word gyp here? Thanks. 86.187.233.187 (talk) 15:27, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
 * That's not quite the usual usage, but see gyp. Likely a slur against the Romani people ("gypsies"). Matt Deres (talk) 15:59, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Dictionary.com states:

gyp 2 / (dʒɪp) / noun British and NZ slang severe pain; torture his arthritis gave him gyp WORD ORIGIN FOR GYP C19: probably a contraction of gee up!; see gee 1
 * I think "gee 1" is the same gee as in gee-haw. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 16:00, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
 * So "it has been giving me pain, as if inflicted by a horsewhip"? Nothing to do with gypsies. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:10, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
 * "My leg's been giving me gyp again" is very much the usual usage, with the relevant body part in place of "leg". My knees, for example, regularly give me gyp. OED gives "to give (a person or thing) gyp: (of a person) to punish or admonish (a person); to assault or beat (a person or thing); (hence in later use) to mock or tease; to criticize. Also similarly to get gyp" and "to give (a person) gyp: (of a part of the body, a situation, a condition, etc.) to hurt (a person), to cause pain for; (hence) to cause trouble for, to irritate or distress", and gives the etymons " gip; gee-up", the expressions used to encourage a horse. DuncanHill (talk) 18:22, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, it certainly had that usage here in Australia, but I think the last generation to use it much at all was the one before mine, now sadly mostly passed. HiLo48 (talk) 01:01, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
 * A friend whose motorbike was hit by a car allegedly told the paramedics that his leg was giving him "a bit of gyp" when it was actually fractured in several places. A master of English understatement. Alansplodge (talk) 16:03, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

"I'm like", she said
For some millions of people, the expression "I'm like" and its variants have totally replaced "I said", "I replied", "I asked", "I wondered", et many al. Have any other languages undergone a similar decline, and what are their equivalent expressions? --  Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  23:57, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
 * There is the often ridiculed und ich so in colloquial German, discussed at length in this paper. On page 51 the author mentions a number of other languages which have the same thing. –Austronesier (talk) 00:15, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
 * The Wikipedia article Quotative presents quotatives in ten languages but does not yet mention this German quotative. --Lambiam 15:00, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
 * FWIW I think "I'm like" and "I'm all" have nuances that subtly differentiate them from "I said" (and perhaps even more so in the third person). In the third person, they tend to suggest that one's interlocutor has said something foolish or naive or otherwise remarkable.  In the first person, it may mean the same, or it may introduce a witty reply. --Trovatore (talk) 00:27, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Russian: "я, такой,..." (I'm, like, ...) "а она, такая, ..." (and she's, like, ...) Aecho6Ee (talk) 00:54, 29 December 2021 (UTC) actually (I only noticed now) simply так (я, так,... "I'm, like" - no inflection for number etc) works, too. I don't know which is better (if at all), but, be that as it may, the phenomenon clearly exists. Aecho6Ee (talk) 01:19, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
 * In Swedish, there's the (by now rather dated) "ja'ba'" from "jag bara", roughly "I jes'". 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 02:50, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
 * And also the expression "ja' typ" (where "typ" means something like "type of", "kind of", "like"). 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 05:19, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Why do you say "decline"? All languages did, do and will evolve, and many once-new words, expressions and usages that seemed odd to older generations came (and will come) to seem standard; otherwise we would be communicating here in PIE (or something even older). {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.209.120.67 (talk) 06:32, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
 * All those other verbs I listed, and there are probably hundreds more, tell their own story and help add shades of nuance and meaning. Not to mention interest. Any narrative that ended every line of conversation with "s/he said" and nothing else would be a total bore, and would deserve all the critical drubbings it gets. And it would be held up for ridicule as an example of language decline; or at best a piece of writing by a very inexperienced writer. Yet we're expected to expose ourselves to narratives in which "I'm like" is the only verb. Once in a while, it's ok. But twenty times a page? - forget it!! --  Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  07:45, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
 * A "page"? Jack, do you regularly come across this usage in writing?  I would find that very unusual, unless it's reported speech, or maybe a personal note meant to be read in a very conversational tone. --Trovatore (talk) 20:22, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm using poetic licence. I hear, rather than read, such things; and then I imagine what a transcription would look like. --  Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  19:36, 30 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Whereas most verba dicendi introducing direct speech carry a moral obligation to report that speech verbatim, the slang expression be like gives its user a licence to kill, paraphrase or otherwise approximate the reported utterance. --Lambiam 11:30, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Our article Verbum dicendi labels this "innovation" rather than "decline". A narrative style lacking literary lustre is of all ages; "Then we did this; then we did that; then we did something else; then we rested; then we went back to work; then we ...". Prescriptive linguistic grumpiness is also of all ages, but may become more pronounced with advancing age. --Lambiam 11:43, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
 * "It's real street level stuff. A lot of kids talk like that." as Scott McCloud commented on the early Image Comics stuff. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 12:46, 29 December 2021 (UTC)


 * It goes back to at least the 80s. It's, like, "Valspeak". --←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:56, 29 December 2021 (UTC)


 * I hear this kind of thing all the time here in Finland. People say "Olin silleen että" (literally "I was in that way", akin to "I was like"). I sometimes wonder if even the Bible should read ''"Ja Jeesus oli heille silleen, että 'Totisesti, minä olen teille silleen, että...'" ("And Jesus was to them like 'Verily, I am to you like...'"). J I P  &#124; Talk 17:29, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
 * There are countless translations already; why not one for readers who'd relate to that? --  Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  18:38, 3 January 2022 (UTC)