Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2021 February 25

= February 25 =

Meaning of 'penny' in 'penny matchbox'
When someone says 'penny matchbox' what does 'penny' mean? Does it cost a penny? Was there a brand of matchboxes named 'Penny' and now it's a general name for the type of matchboxes? --Bumptump (talk) 10:34, 25 February 2021 (UTC)


 * My guess: there used to be machines for dispensing matchboxes, requiring the buyer to insert a penny (see e.g. here or here), and the meaning of "penny matchbox" is then, a matchbox the size of those dispatched by such dispensers. --Lambiam 11:04, 25 February 2021 (UTC)


 * I'm unfamiliar with the phrase "penny matchbox". What is a penny matchbox? DuncanHill (talk) 12:01, 25 February 2021 (UTC)


 * It's a vulgar matchbox: . --Bumptump (talk) 12:10, 25 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Thanks, we just call them matchboxes in Britain. DuncanHill (talk) 12:13, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
 * In Newspapers.com, the earliest I'm seeing the term is in Irish and English newspapers starting in the 1850s. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:13, 25 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Maybe the same thing as the Penny in a Penny whistle. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:10, 25 February 2021 (UTC)


 * The cause of working class misery in Denmark? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:17, 25 February 2021 (UTC)


 * A plausible explanation for the US usage:
 * "During the decade 1860 to 1870, however, a new influence began to affect the match industry. As a result of the civil war the Federal Government required manufacturers of matches to place a 1-cent revenue stamp on each ordinary small box of matches"
 * United States Congress House Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce (1910) p. 417 Alansplodge (talk) 13:37, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Might explain why it's more well-known in the US? But that's ten years after those news reports uncovered by Baseball Bugs? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:54, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
 * "penny" (adjective) + "matchbox" (noun) vs "penny matchbox" (compound noun). DuncanHill (talk) 14:07, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Isn't that what Bugs was searching for? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:13, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
 * The two look the same but are constructed differently. A penny matchbox to a 19th century Briton was a matchbox costing a penny, a penny matchbox to a modern American is just a matchbox of indeterminate price (but one suspects rather more than one cent). DuncanHill (talk) 14:29, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
 * And what about a 19th-century American funding the cost of the Civil War? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:35, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Might be a red herring, I couldn't find anything to directly connect it to the current phrase. Alansplodge (talk) 15:51, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Just as penny matchboxes don't cost a penny anymore, neither does penny candy and I haven't been able to buy anything costing only $0.05 or $0.10 at a five and dime store. Even dollar stores are now carrying items that cost more than a dollar.  Inflation, unfortunately, doesn't ask linguistics how it should behave.  -- Jayron 32 17:53, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
 * One wonders how Muhammad Shahid Nazir is getting on these days. His pescetarian offers were matchless. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:08, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

As an aside, Norway has since 1925 produced matchboxes with a picture of a coin printed on the box. The original coin was 1 øre (1/100th of 1 NOK), signifying that an amount of 1 øre was given to a charity fund for each box sold, hence the name "Hjelpestikker" ("Help matches"). During the years, the coin has grown to today 10 øre. The box in the picture has a 3 øre coin, a value that never has been minted. --T*U (talk) 20:02, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
 * The Salvation Army in the UK used to sell "charity matches." "It is likely that The Darkest England Gazette's determined campaign to sell the Darkest England Matches early in 1894 was a result of awareness within the Social Wing that the match factory was suffering". Fascinating article:
 * The "Darkest England" (red phosphorus) matches were a reaction to the horrible and dangerous working conditions at other British match factories, especially Bryant & May (see phossy jaw). Ironically, the unprofitable Salvation Army factory was taken over by Bryant & May in 1901. Further background: . Cheers ⌘  hugarheimur 11:31, 27 February 2021 (UTC)