Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2021 February 6

= February 6 =

English words to describe these people
There are people who try to be friendly with you, only for taking some advantage, as:

borrowing money,

they will not plant any fruit tree in their own land, but if neighbor will plant any tree, then asking for fruits,

Some relatives who will try to be in touch with you, if you earn money after getting a job, but when you are unemployed then they will try to avoid you. -- Preceding unsigned comment added by 2409:4061:2C0F:4673:C0AA:C138:2259:C53B (talk) 13:10, 6 February 2021 (UTC)


 * "Fair-weather friend"... 13:21, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
 * "Fair-weather friend" gets my vote. "Freeloader" doesn't have the friend connotation. Clarityfiend (talk) 18:45, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
 * "Con artist". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:33, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Etymology of Shrek
Hi all, I'm trying to verify the sentence The name "Shrek" is the romanization of the Yiddish word שרעק, corresponding to German Schreck and meaning "fear" or "fright". in Shrek!. Help finding reliable sources would be greatly appreciated. The line dates back to 2006, so an ideal source would be published somewhere highly reliable or before that date. Thanks, Eddie891 Talk Work 15:18, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
 * For what it's worth, Google Translate equates that Hebrew / Yiddish word to "alarm" and the German to "fright". Although it makes logical sense, it does not prove why the character was named "Shrek". Unfortunately, the author of the book is no longer among the living. But if someone can find the book, it's possible there's a clue about it. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:47, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Schreck in German can also mean that which causes/induces fear (c.f. DWB), be it a scarecrow or a monster. The latter seems to make sense. Cheers ⌘  hugarheimur 16:18, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Yiddish שרעק and German Schreck are pronounced the same way and are cognates and wiktionary שרעק seems to equate them. Nevertheless, the Yiddish wikipedia explains yi:שרעק as fear and the German wikipedia explains de:Schreck as fright, scare, so the two words might have developed into false friends. --Pp.paul.4 (talk) 20:16, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Since they are basically synonyms, how would their friendship be false? Note also the pair of corresponding adjectives schrecklich (pronounced shreklikh) and שרעקלעך (shreklekh), both meaning “terrible”. A difference is that the Yiddish term is also used as an interjection, as seen here in the form "OY! Shrek!". So I assume the only thing that needs verification is that Steig took the name of his ogre from Yiddish, and not from a phonetic rendering of the German noun. Note that Steig was the son of Eastern European Jewish immigrants, so it is very plausible his parents spoke Yiddish, and as he grew up in the Jewish neighbourhood of the Bronx, he must also have heard it spoken on the streets and in shops. Steig was a brother-in-law of Leo Rosten, a chronicler and lexicographer of Yiddish, who also used Yiddish expressions in his humoristic writings. (Their two wives and Margaret Mead were three sisters). A description of the exhibition "From The New Yorker to Shrek: The Art of William Steig", organized in 2009 by the Jewish Museum in New York City, writes that the exhibition "features a wide selection of original drawings for both his New Yorker cartoons and his children’s books such as [...] and Shrek! ("fear" in Yiddish).' That same claim also appeared in the November 26, 2007 issue of The New Yorker in an announcement of the exhibition. I cannot explain the 2009–2007 discrepancy, unless the exhibition was repeated. --Lambiam 21:36, 6 February 2021 (UTC)


 * A reference for the Yiddish part is:

Suspended (in) sentence
Hyphen says ""investor-owned and -operated" is fine, but what about "circus strongmen and -women"? "Strongmen and strongwomen" just sounds clumsy, and don't get me started on "strongpeople". Clarityfiend (talk) 18:50, 6 February 2021 (UTC)


 * In "investor-owned", the strongest stress is on the syllable OWN, while in "strongman" the strongest stress is on the syllable STRONG, which may be at least part of the difference... AnonMoos (talk) 20:47, 6 February 2021 (UTC)


 * My question is whether that is grammatically acceptable, or does the first part have to be hyphenated. Clarityfiend (talk) 20:11, 7 February 2021 (UTC)


 * The word "strongman" is not generally spelled hyphenated, because its pronunciation doesn't have a stress pattern consistent with being spelled either as two words or with a hyphen (e.g. "lighthouse" with main stress on LIGHT and lacking a separate word stress on HOUSE), so inserting a hyphen within it would be wrong according to conventional English spelling norms. The stress pattern is probably a large part of why "strongman" is not amenable to the suspended hyphenation treatment... AnonMoos (talk) 00:38, 8 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Aw nuts. Thanks. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:12, 8 February 2021 (UTC)