Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2021 January 4

= January 4 =

Not homework: confused by a crossword clue
I am working on a Crossword puzzle. The clue is "assibilate", which I did not understand. The answer is "lisp". I have looked at the Wikipedia articles Lisp and Assibilation, as well as the Wiktionary entry for assibilate, and I still don't fully make the connection. I understand that a list is a speach impediment involving mispronouncing sibilants, but I don't see how that directly relates to assibilate which I think creates sibilants. Obviously I am misunderstanding something. Can someone help explain how assibilate equals lisp? RudolfRed (talk) 02:48, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * EO says "assibilate" means "to change to a hissing sound". Whether a lisp qualifies could be a matter of opinion. <-Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots-> 05:00, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Linguists use the noun form ("assibilation") more than the verb, and use it to refer to a sound change which makes something into a sibilant... AnonMoos (talk) 12:27, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * P.S. Some kinds of lisps change an "s" sound to a "th" sound, which is the exact opposite of assibilation... AnonMoos (talk) 12:31, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Side note: assibilation is not always a speech impediment or a lisp. Some dialects assibilate as a normal thing. For example Quebec French and New England French assibilates the "t" sound between two vowels, such that words like "petit" become realized as /pəsi/ or even /psi/ instead of the Metropolitan French pronunciation of /pəti/.  A related concept is frication, which is the "th" sound that AnonMoos notes above, frication is also a normal feature of some dialects, such as in some Spanish dialects, notably Castilian Spanish.  See Phonological history of Spanish coronal fricatives.  -- Jayron 32 13:39, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks, everyone, for the replies. Very helpful.  RudolfRed (talk) 16:36, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * I hadn't heard the word assibilate before, but I'd have guessed it meant the total opposite: removal of an S sound. They should have gone for essibilate, or ensibilate, or adsibilate, or something. Temerarius (talk) 23:20, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Temerarius -- the Greek negative prefix (or "alpha privative") does not double following consonants (as opposed to when the "d" of Latin "ad-" assimilates to the consonant of the stem to which it's attached). So "asymmetric" vs. "assimilate". AnonMoos (talk) 07:11, 5 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Cool, but why is it a negative prefix? Temerarius (talk) 20:46, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * It isn't. —Tamfang (talk) 03:04, 6 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The word a ss imilation is itself a nice example of a d-s imilation. --Lambiam 09:54, 5 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Borg with a cold: You will be assibilated. Clarityfiend (talk) 07:34, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

"For those interested..."
I've occasionally heard and even used the phrase: "For those interested..."; which, to my ears, sounds okay. It seems grammatically incorrect, however. Is it? Of course, it is shorthand for: "For those of you who are interested...", which is proper. --107.15.157.44 (talk) 13:00, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * "Those" is a demonstrative pronoun and can be a subject of a clause/sentence. It seems perfectly grammatical to me to say "those interested...".  -- Jayron 32 13:13, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * 107.15.157.44 -- It's compressed/elliptical, but I don't see how it's ungrammatical: "Interested" is a verb passive participle, and such passive participles are often used as adjectives. In this case, the adjective is used in a noun slot, but does not take a noun plural inflection, as is usually the case ("The poor are always with us" etc). AnonMoos (talk) 13:19, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * It's not just an "adjective used in a noun spot", it's a honest-to-god pronoun all on its own. See the Wikipedia article demonstrative, which describes the concept of a "demonstrative pronoun", to wit, "A demonstrative pronoun stands on its own, replacing rather than modifying a noun"  -- Jayron 32 13:27, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I have little idea what you're talking about -- I was referring to the word "interested", not the word "those", as seems quite clear from what I wrote above". "Those" is actually behaving very normally in 107.15.157.44's clause; it's "interested" which is in a slightly unusual role... AnonMoos (talk) 13:47, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, of course you're right and I'm wrong. I'm an asshole as usual.  I'm quite sorry to have misinterpreted your response.  I apologize profusely.  -- Jayron 32 13:51, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you both for explaining. The complexities of English.  Sentence fragments. Often useful, rarely proper.  Discuss later, perhaps?  107.15.157.44 (talk) 13:37, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Please unlearn the concept that there is such a thing as "proper" English. There are only different registers. --174.95.161.129 (talk) 21:24, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Ain't it the truth. <-Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots-> 22:10, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Proper - adjective: Called for by rules or conventions; correct. --2603:6081:1C00:1187:214B:A1BF:7A5C:E912 (talk) 22:20, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Exactly. There ain't no such thing. --174.95.161.129 (talk) 04:07, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Therefore, there is no register of English that has rules or conventions. It is quite ironic that by your rules and conventions, it it improper for me to use a "register" of my choice. 2603:6081:1C00:1187:214B:A1BF:7A5C:E912 (talk) 04:54, 5 January 2021 (UTC)


 * It is a very generally used construction. From just one page on the website of The New York Times: "those in the president's orbit", "those in the president's circle", "those receiving the shots", "those at high risk from the coronavirus", "those sick with an unknown respiratory ailment". The construction is most commonly seen with the demonstrative pronoun those, referring to a group of entities, often people, with some common characteristic. The uses above stand for " the people in the president's orbit", and so on. For a single entity with a specific characteristic, the pronoun the one is used: "the one with the suspected case", "the one without air conditioning", "the one in the dry-cleaning wrap". A rare occurrence of the construction using the pronoun that: "that in the garden". The pronoun replaces "the tree" – " the tree in the garden"; in the context it is obvious the speaker is referring to a tree, so this does not have to be repeated. --Lambiam 09:48, 5 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The title of every episode of the "Friends" TV series started with "The one..." -- AnonMoos (talk) 14:15, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Except the last one, "The Last One". —Tamfang (talk) 03:06, 6 January 2021 (UTC)


 * interested is here a kind of reduced relative clause, specifically one resulting from Whiz deletion (which to my surprise we have no article about or that even mentions). --ColinFine (talk) 18:04, 5 January 2021 (UTC)