Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2021 May 17

= May 17 =

What does tetracosa- mean??
Using the rules in Wikipedia's List of polygons article, tetracosa- means 400. But Wiktionary disagrees; it says it means 24. (I thought 24 was icosatetra- or icosakaitetra-.) Which is right, Wikipedia's list of polygons or Wiktionary?? Georgia guy (talk) 00:53, 17 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Wiktionary also says that tetracosa- comes from Ancient Greek τετράκοσι (tetrákosi), but no such Ancient Greek word exists. There is a word τετρακόσιοι (), which does mean "four hundred". The prefix given in the List of polygons is tetracosi-. I don't know if it is attested, but the Ancient Greek word I'd expect for 24 is τετρακαίεικοσι (tetrakaíeikosi); LSJ lists τετρακαιεικοστός (tetrakaieikostós''), meaning "twenty-fourth". --Lambiam 11:31, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
 * τετρακοσι- exist as the stem of four hundred but I wonder if τετράκοσι cannot possibly be also a crasis or mixing out of tetra=four and eikosi=twenty (but then it is missing a coronis). In this case unfortunately it will be possible for tetracosa- to mean four hundred AND twenty-four indeed. If this is not the case then tetracosa- for 24 is simply wrong. It wouldn't be the first imported word in English that is used in a completely wrong way, see e.g. tachometer 2003:F5:6F02:C00:E9E7:1F6D:261E:6267 (talk) 21:30, 23 May 2021 (UTC) Marco PB


 * A 24-faced polyhedron appears to be called an  icositetra hedron. --Lambiam 12:07, 17 May 2021 (UTC)


 * LSJ lists εἰκοσιτέσσαρες (eikositéssares) as meaning "twenty-four". --Lambiam 12:49, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

English question from Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince (film)
Hermoine upsets over Ron kissing Lav:


 * Hermoine: Was I under the impression he and I would be attending Slughorn's Christmas party? Yes. Now, given the circumstances, I've had to make other arrangements.
 * Harry: Have you?
 * Hermoine: Yes. Why?
 * Hermoine: Yes. Why?
 * Hermoine: Yes. Why?

What does "why" refer to? Rizosome (talk) 06:49, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
 * It's a short way of saying, "Why do you ask?" ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 07:19, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
 * And this curt reply suggests that Hermione thinks it is none of Harry's business, discouraging him from further probing unless he can present a legitimate reason for his interest. By the way, Herm io ne (note the spelling) is pronounced with four syllables with the stress on the second syllable, like her-MY-a-knee. --Lambiam 11:54, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

"You put it out wrong"
There is a Finnish anecdote where someone calls the fire brigade when there is a fire in their house. The fire brigade takes too long to arrive, during which time the caller puts out the fire themselves. When the fire brigade finally arrives, the caller says there is no emergency any more, as they put the fire out themselves. The fire brigade replies "Well, you put it out wrong". The idea is that the fire brigade is annoyed at having been called in vain, and is searching for something to complain about. Does a similar anecdote exist in English? J I P &#124; Talk 16:36, 17 May 2021 (UTC)


 * This may be an instance of inimitable Finnish humour. It is vaguely reminiscent of a joke told by Werner Herzog in his book Conquest of the Useless: I first heard this many years ago, but Herzog also gives a variant that was new to me:  Which reminds me of the propagandist explaining to his audience:  (This joke is variously attributed to John Maynard Keynes or John Kenneth Galbraith, but not found on Wikiquote so I guess these are false attributions.) Which in turn reminds me of Bush 43 proclaiming, really,   --Lambiam 21:19, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
 * A classic type of joke, though I don't know what it's called, if anything. A store is selling some product at 5 dollars each. The customer complains that across the street it's 4 dollars each. "So why don't you buy from across the street?" "They're out of them!" "Hey, if I was out of them, I'd offer them at 3 dollars each!" Closer to the coffee joke, Groucho Marx pulls out a cigar and says, "Do you mind if I don't smoke?" and puts the cigar back in his pocket. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:39, 17 May 2021 (UTC)


 * My favorite Communism joke. A certain shop is rumored to have meat to sell, and by sunrise there is a long line of customers. The shop door opens a crack and a face appears and says, "We don't have enough meat for everyone, so will any Jews please leave." The queue thins out a bit.  Time passes.  The face reappears: "There are still too many of you. We only have enough meat for members of the Communist Party."  Many more leave.  More time passes.  "We only have enough meat for veterans of the Great Patriotic War."  More customers go.  More time passes.  "Only enough for veterans of the October Revolution."  As the sun sets, the shopkeeper confesses that there is no meat at all.  One of the two remaining old Bolsheviks mutters to the other, "The Jews always get the best of everything." —Tamfang (talk) 05:00, 21 May 2021 (UTC)


 * In Finland, "Well, you put it out wrong" is used as an expression to express sentiment that someone wants to complain for the sake of complaining, when they don't have a real reason. This is based on the anecdote above. Does English have such an expression? J I P  &#124; Talk 22:39, 17 May 2021 (UTC)


 * It's not quite sour grapes but that lead me to cognitive dissonance which might apply. 41.165.67.114 (talk) 06:04, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

JIP -- there's a Yiddish expression &#x5D0; &#x5D7;&#x5E1;&#x5E8;&#x5D5;&#x5DF; &#x5D3;&#x5D9; &#x5DB;&#x5DC;&#x5D4; &#x5D0;&#x5D9;&#x5D6; &#x5E6;&#x5D5; &#x5E9;&#x5D9;&#x5D9;&#x5DF; insinuating that some people would complain at a wedding because the bride is too beautiful... AnonMoos (talk) 06:39, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
 * That seems indeed to convey the same message as "you put it out wrong". The Yiddish expression (transliterated, with an extra word thrown in where others have a colon: a khisorn az di kale iz tsu sheyn) is discussed here. Do people shorten this to just the last part (די כלה איז צו שיין)? --Lambiam 08:25, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Trying to remember famous case study
I read long ago about a case of a mentally handicapped woman who had perfectly normal grammar and appropriate vocabulary (albeit restricted). This case was mostly used to demonstrate language modularity. It is not Genie, nor any other (half)feral child, which seem to always have very limited linguistic abilities. If I remember correctly she was the daughter of a researcher. --Bumptump (talk) 17:49, 17 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Perhaps the condition of the woman was Williams syndrome; the verbal skills of affected individuals are generally relatively unaffected. For the rest, there is little to go on to narrow the search; many case studies of people with this syndrome have been published. --Lambiam 22:02, 17 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Two cases are discussed near the end of Chapter 2 of The Language Instinct by Steven Pinker: "Denyse" (spina bifida) and "Crystal" (Williams syndrome). AnonMoos (talk) 08:57, 19 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Also Oliver Sacks discusses a Williams syndrome case in Musicophilia. --T*U (talk) 12:53, 19 May 2021 (UTC)